Why the West Isn’t Always Best: How Afro-Optimism Can Redefine African Succes with Adeolu Adewumi-Zer
Unlocking AfricaMarch 24, 2025
167
00:37:4225.93 MB

Why the West Isn’t Always Best: How Afro-Optimism Can Redefine African Succes with Adeolu Adewumi-Zer

Episode #167 with Adeolu Adewumi-Zer, who is a seasoned strategist, business leader, and author of the recently published book "Afro-Optimism Unleashed: Scaling African Excellence to the Global Stage 

Adeolu Adewumi-Zer is at the forefront of redefining Africa’s business narrative through her transformative SCALE framework and deep-rooted belief in Afro-optimism. Drawing from decades of executive experience across Africa, Europe, and Asia, she empowers entrepreneurs and leaders to scale African excellence globally by bridging local realities with global best practices.

In this episode, we dive into the core themes of Afro-Optimism Unleashed from building a global mindset and building pan-African powerhouses, to overcoming impostor syndrome and unlocking the power of the diaspora.

What We Discuss With Adeolu

  • Key steps to shifting the African narrative from one of struggle to one of excellence, and how this transformation can inspire global recognition.
  • The personal journey toward Afro-optimism and the defining moments that sparked a strong belief in Africa’s potential.
  • The important role of trust in achieving business success in Africa and how leaders can actively build and maintain it.
  • The powerful role of the African diaspora in driving the Afro-Optimism movement and contributing to the continent’s growth.
  • The importance of mentorship from experienced leaders in nurturing Afro-optimism among women and the younger generation.

Did you miss my previous episode where I discuss Increasing Japan-Africa Business Opportunities Through AI & Technology? Make sure to check it out!

Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps!

Connect with Terser:
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Instagram - unlockingafrica
Twitter (X) - @TerserAdamu

Connect with Adeolu:
LinkedIn - Adeolu Adewumi-Zer
Twitter (X) - @AdeoluZer

Many of the businesses unlocking opportunities in Africa don’t do it alone. If you’d like strategic support on entering or expanding across African markets, reach out to our partners ETK Group:

www.etkgroup.co.uk
info@etkgroup.co.uk

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast. What I always tell people if there's one thing about me to remember that I'm an Afro-Optimist, that's a term that I self-named, that I wear very proudly. You know, that really helps people to understand the journey that I've been on over the last 25 years of my career. The book that will change your life is not the book that you read, but the book that you write. So we started S, which is

[00:00:26] to strategize your vision. And here we're talking about putting the strategy together, which can be sometimes relatively easy for companies, but then talking also about executing that strategy, which is a bit more difficult. Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential. You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:54] Welcome to the Unlocking Africa Podcast, where we find inspirational people who are doing inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential. Today we have Adeolu Adewumi-Zer, who is a seasoned strategist, business leader, and author of the recently published book, Afro-Optimism Unleashed, Scaling African Excellence to the Global Stage. Welcome, welcome,

[00:01:22] welcome to the podcast, Adeolu. How are you? Thank you so much. I'm doing great. Happy to be here. It's a pleasure to have you here. We are here to discuss your great work and your recently published book, Afro-Optimism Unleashed. So let's get straight into it. So I was hoping you can give us a brief introduction and tell us who Adeolu is. Yeah, sure. So what I always tell people, if there's one thing they

[00:01:50] remember about me, to remember that I'm an Afro-Optimist. So that's a term that I self-named, Afro-Optimist, that I wear very proudly, even on my LinkedIn page. And, you know, that really just talks through and helps people to understand the journey that I've been on over the last 25 years of my career and how I even ended up back in Nigeria after having grown up, studied and started my career

[00:02:19] in the US. So looking at starting out as an actuarial consultant, expanding to an international benefits consultant. And then in my journey back to Nigeria, I spent seven and a half years in Munich, where I then transitioned to another global, global multinational who helped happen to be a client of mine,

[00:02:43] who actually sent me for two years on secondment to Turkey, where I helped them to build their corporate go-to-market strategy. Hopped back to Germany very quickly before landing in Nairobi, finally on the African continent to really support their growth strategies by running the merger mergers and acquisitions unit across Africa. Landed some big deals. One of those deals was in

[00:03:11] Nigeria. And then at some point I was called to actually run that company in Nigeria as the CEO. So in 2020, that's, that was my grand homecoming back home. In the middle, mids of COVID, meaning that I had to leave my family back in Nairobi. They joined me a year later. And since then we've been based here in Lagos, Nigeria, I've since left the corporate world to found my own strategy management,

[00:03:40] strategy and management consulting firm called Zaire Consulting Africa. We're purpose-driven Pan-African and working with SMEs to build what we call African excellence for the global stage. Brilliant, brilliant. So you've detailed your professional and personal experience, but most importantly, you are a Afro-optimist, which has led you to what you're doing now. So if we look

[00:04:05] specifically at the book, what is it that inspired you to write Afro-Optimism Unleashed? That's a great question. And a question I've been getting often because over the years with the kind of career I've had, I've had a number of people suggest that I write a book, even in the beginning of last year. And my response was always why, what do I have to add to the discussion? There are so many

[00:04:31] great business and leadership books out there, many of which I've read as an average reader. And then coming to 2023, I started following a gentleman out of the UK who would provide a lot of tips around business. I consider him my business guru now. And one of the things he can, he keeps saying and continually says is the book that will change your life is not the book that

[00:04:57] you read, but the book that you write. And that really struck me again, as an average reader that, this is an interesting point that he's putting out there. And that's probably really what sort of started the journey inside my head before I reached that point in May, where I decided, okay, let me go forward and see what comes out. Even if I decide not to move forward with publishing, at least I would

[00:05:24] have put my thoughts from my 25 years on paper and could leverage that for further thought leadership, whether it be in LinkedIn articles, et cetera. But I do tend to finish what I start. And so here we find ourselves 10 months later with our first book, my first book coming out next Tuesday. Brilliant. So you've put the book together. The book is over 200 pages, very detailed, comprehensive,

[00:05:53] but how do you personally define Afro-optimism? Yeah. So for me, it's really being proud of being an African. So it's really a mindset, right? It's not about ignoring the challenges that we have on the continent, the challenges we face out in the world, as particularly as Black Africans. But it's really rewriting or sort of flipping that script

[00:06:18] and saying, well, your perception, your words, your societal judgment of me is one thing, but how I see myself and how I perceive myself is a completely different thing. And that's what I hold on to. So again, like I said, it's really a mindset. It's not being blind to the problems that we have,

[00:06:42] but it's looking at the potential and to move forward past to shrug those problems off and to move forward and say, well, despite all those challenges, I'm going to take action. So you mentioned that in terms of flipping the script and changing the narrative from one of challenges to one of potential. So what are some of the key steps for achieving this shift?

[00:07:08] Well, like with anything, you have to start with yourself. So I think it's very easy to point fingers at leadership, government, infrastructure, and the list goes on. But if you really want to bring change to this world, even if it's a little change and maybe no one outside your town, no one outside your city, no one outside your country, you see the change that you're making, that change has to start

[00:07:36] with yourself. So I would say that's the first step is really being uncertain of what you want to achieve, what impact you want to make in the world, and what is it that you need to get yourself ready to make that change? So if we look at some of these narratives and common misconceptions about Africa, what is it that you hope to challenge specifically through the book?

[00:08:03] What I want to challenge is this notion that we as Africans need the world to look out for us, and for people to realize that we can look out for ourselves. For example, if I look at even just the, this notion that all of Africa exists on aid, foreign aid from countries outside the continent.

[00:08:28] But if you look at the numbers, I don't have them in front of me. But the numbers are clear based on external data collection, that the majority, the vast majority of funds flowing into Africa coming from the diaspora itself. So this is us looking for out for ourselves. The second piece would be to also

[00:08:51] just understand that we can compete and we do compete at the same level as peoples from other markets, other continents. I can take myself as a Nigerian looking at the diaspora. And when you go to places like the US, UK, other places, and you look at the black professionals who are making something

[00:09:17] on themselves, they tend to be Nigerians, they tend to be Africans. And so this is that African excellence that I spoke of earlier, saying that we have the skill set and we need to believe in ourselves and be able to deliver that same skill no matter where we are, whether we're outside our country or inside our country. Brilliant. I mean, as you mentioned there, you've described your personal journey, the diaspora

[00:09:45] and the African excellence. So was there a defining moment that solidified, I guess, your belief in Africa's potential? Is there something that's always been there? I think it's something that's always been there. Yes, I grew up in the US. My parents emigrated with the oldest two at a very young age. I wasn't even three when we moved to the US. But growing up with

[00:10:11] a professor as a father and an educated mom who was a homemaker, but educated with her masters, I was fully confident in what I could achieve. And as the firstborn, there's an expectation, particularly by immigrant parents, particularly by African parents, even more particularly by Nigerian parents that you be the best and you will shine in everything you do. So I didn't feel it as

[00:10:39] pressure. It was just always there and always expected. As you mentioned, you came from a high achieving family of professionals, but we know that many professionals, especially ones from the diaspora, struggle with what we term imposter syndrome. Thank you. So I guess from your perspective, how have you personally overcome that and what advice would you give to others facing it?

[00:11:05] I was discussing this the other day with another friend of mine who happens to be not Nigerian, I believe she's from Cameroon, but also this West African sort of mindset. And I do believe that imposter syndrome, while it impacts everyone, my observation is that perhaps it impacts West Africans a bit less.

[00:11:30] So there is always this assurance that we can handle ourselves. That being said, it doesn't mean that I don't have my moments of doubt that I don't think even today, I'll be 48 this year, even today, that, oh, can I really do this? Can I get a book out? What will people say? Et cetera. And I've come to the age where I just shrug and move on. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:00] You, you, you realize that, not at some point realize that most people, not everyone will like you. And as long as you're comfortable in yourself, that should be all that matters. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So I guess if we go back to the book and some of its key themes, I guess one thing that I enjoyed was you introduced the scale framework in the book. I was hoping you could kind of explain what the scale framework is.

[00:12:27] Right. So what it is, is that we've, we've basically, what I've done is, is sort of package the roadmap or the journey to achieving that African excellence, not for individuals, but actually for organizations and package it in a way that would be easy to digest.

[00:12:46] And hopefully memorable with, with most companies wanting to go get bigger or scale and using those same letters to, to spell out the steps that they need to do to achieve that impact.

[00:13:01] And so we started S which is strategize your vision. And here we're talking about putting the strategy together, which is, can be sometimes relatively easy for, for companies, but then talking also about executing that strategy, which is a bit more difficult. So pretty PowerPoints are one thing, but actually implementing what's on those PowerPoints can be a completely different thing.

[00:13:26] And then we move on to champion excellence, which is the C. And so here's the people piece. So you have your strategy, who's going to actually implement and execute that strategy is people, right? So it's the people in your team. So how do you get the right people? How do you, particularly in our markets, how do you build their capabilities and the capacity? How do you get them motivated and align with the vision that you have for your organization?

[00:13:51] And to do that, you need the right leadership, which brings us to A, accelerate exceptional leadership. So anyone who has been on the continent, has worked on the continent or interacted with folks from Africa, you know, bad leadership is a term that we hear quite too often. And so here we want to focus on building exceptional leadership.

[00:14:18] And so how do we, how do we do that in accelerating that same leadership? And then moving on to L, which is leveraging governance for sustainable growth. This is when people start yawning and think, oh, governance, corporate governance is just a checkbox exercise.

[00:14:35] But what we don't realize and what we don't sometimes forget is the transparency that good governance brings is actually what will put us on the same footing as other global organizations. And then lastly, we end with E, which is expand your impact for your growth capital.

[00:14:56] I was very blessed to have one of our strategic partners for them to co-write this chapter with me as M&A experts. And here we talk about capital, but not just financial capital, but also social capital in terms of partnerships. I'm a firm believer that the challenges we have in Africa are too big to go out alone. So we need that collaboration. We need to work together for the good of our continent.

[00:15:25] So, yeah, that's what that takes you through it. S-E-A-L-E, scale, which is strategize, champion, accelerate, leverage and expand. Thank you for that. You highlighted a key point with regards to transparency. Transparency, I guess transparency and trust go hand in hand because trust is quite a recurring theme in the book. So I was wondering why is trust crucial for success for businesses in Africa?

[00:15:52] So we go back to one of our previous discussion where we talk about the perceptions that people have about our continent. And so, you know, trust is an important currency in any market. But I firmly believe that it's an even more important currency in our markets because we're battling additionally,

[00:16:16] which is perception that corruption and bad governance and bad leadership is higher on this continent, is higher in our markets than in others. Having worked and lived and worked in other countries, I would dispute this claim, but we have to deal with perception. So those companies that can show their transparency, show their trust, actually have it as a way to differentiate themselves from others.

[00:16:45] I agree. I guess we could say that trust is important for African businesses looking to expand globally. I know in the book you discuss building a global mindset. So apart from building trust, what key mindset shifts do you think are necessary for African leaders to compete on a global stage? Yeah. So in addition to trust, I would say there's two more.

[00:17:09] So one is the first one or actually the second one is this getting away from the notion that we can only learn from ourselves. And our problems are so huge and so different from the rest of the world that we need some kind of unique solution. And being able to tap into the best practices that are being developed in other parts of the world and to bring them into Africa.

[00:17:39] But of course, to also recognize the nuances and the customization that needs to happen for our markets. It can't be a copy paste, right? So, but we can learn from others. So that would be the second. And then the third is to tap into the diaspora. I believe the African diaspora is supposed to be the second largest after India.

[00:18:00] And the same way that the Indians have been able to tap into diaspora, not only to lead global organizations in the West, but also to drive their economic development in India. It's the same way that we as Africans, yes, Africa is a continent of 54 countries, but we as Africans should be able to also leverage that same African excellence that we see outside of Africa.

[00:18:29] Leverage that knowledge from diaspora for the problems that we have on the continent. Very important point. Obviously, you've touched on this, but I was hoping you could expand in terms of what role do you believe the diaspora can play in? And specifically the Afro-optimism movement.

[00:18:46] Yeah, so I think the role, and I consider myself still part of the diaspora, even though I've been back on the continent for almost a decade, is thrifled. So one is really financial. Let's be frank, we can't get away from that. Yes, we're focusing on building sustainable businesses, but businesses do need the right capital to run effectively.

[00:19:15] So that's the one piece. And we do receive a lot of from its assistance into Africa. What I would contend is it's usually spent on individual needs, family needs, which, of course, is very important. But less so on wider investments, which actually in the long run will impact our families and our communities more positively. So that's the first one. Second is knowledge.

[00:19:46] So as smart as the people are that I encounter in our markets here on the continent, there is a difference. And there will always be a difference no matter what country you're coming from when you've received exposure to other cultures and are able to bring that knowledge into your home markets. And this is what the diasporans can do and can provide. And then the third one is talent.

[00:20:13] Talent. So talent is one of the key things when I speak with founders, when I speak with clients that they battle with. And it's not unique. It's a battle that the companies are facing all over the world. But sometimes we feel that our problems are the biggest problems.

[00:20:32] And my experience is that there are a number of Africans living outside their home countries who would love to find a way to work and provide impact back home. And I think in today's world where we have technology, we've seen in COVID that there's other ways to work. Even when we talk about fractional talent, this is a way to be able to tap into the diaspora.

[00:21:00] I guess in order to fully mobilize the diaspora, it does require engaging them with intent. So how can African countries better engage the diaspora communities for better development and collaboration? Yeah, so I think Ghana is really at the forefront of this.

[00:21:21] They've had a number of initiatives and I believe also even have an office that's focused on how to leverage the diasporans. And when they say diasporans, they're not speaking to just Ghanaians living outside of Ghana, but actually the African, the Black diaspora, which is something that I think is leaps ahead to what many other countries are doing. Many countries are just focused on their own folk.

[00:21:50] And here Ghana has recognized that we are all African. And so it does take some intentionality. It takes investment and it takes a concerted PR effort, right? Because it's lack of knowledge. So when you ask people, why haven't you moved back home? The biggest, the most frequent response I get is, well, but I don't know what to do.

[00:22:20] I don't know what the first step is. And then I also hear all these scary stories from the media. So that is also influencing how willing I am to move back. And so we can only counter bad press with good press about our countries. Exactly, exactly.

[00:22:41] You mentioned Ghana, but what lessons can Africa learn from, say, other emerging economies that have successfully leveraged their diaspora for economic growth? Well, I've already mentioned India, but I would like to point out Barbados, which maybe is not on everyone's radar screen.

[00:23:00] I've recently learned maybe a couple of years back about everything that Barbados is doing in terms of really increasing the investment and tourism and attention on their small little island country in the middle of the Atlantic. And I really think they are punching above their weight, if I can use that term.

[00:23:26] Like I said, they're just a small island, but they're out. They're out and about proactively marketing themselves. So one of the things that I've seen over the last couple of years is how much marketing, self-marketing, self-PR that Barbados has done over the last couple of years.

[00:23:47] Really having people to better understand what they're about, what opportunities are there, and even increasing their tourism in that way. But not focus on just tourism, but also bringing actual financial investment to that small island nation. And this is something that we could learn from. We have much bigger countries, much bigger population from these countries who are living out.

[00:24:12] And what are we doing to really self-market the opportunities and make it easy for people to understand how they can make an impact in our countries? So if we look at another area that you're extremely passionate about, I know you've been a strong advocate for women in leadership. With that in mind, what barriers have you seen that still exist for African women in business in terms of leadership roles?

[00:24:41] The interesting thing is that women in leadership in Africa, we actually lead, if you look at the statistics, as opposed to other markets. So that's actually one positive area where we lead. But when I say we lead, it's still from a very, very low standpoint, right? So the number of, or the percentage of women leaders might be higher across the continent, but still extremely low.

[00:25:09] And then if you look at investment into women-led businesses or women-led funds, the numbers drop even more drastically. So, you know, these are the barriers that we women are facing. Even things like not being compensated the same or having additional jobs on our shoulder in addition to having to build a career.

[00:25:38] I don't think those things have really changed, unfortunately, in the 25 years that I've been working as a woman. As you mentioned, women leaders in Africa is higher than other regions, but we are working from a very low benchmark. So how can we encourage more women to embrace leadership roles within African corporate and entrepreneurial spaces? Well, two things.

[00:26:05] The women who are already in this space need to be visible. One of the reasons that I go on shows like this and write articles and make myself visible on LinkedIn is not because it comes naturally to me. I'd actually rather sit on my couch and watch Netflix, to be honest, any chocolate.

[00:26:28] But it's, you know, one of the things that I'd realized maybe 10 years back in my career, I was still in Turkey at the time, is that I actually had a duty and a responsibility to the woman around me to be visible because representation does matter. And so it's only when people see others who look like themselves that it gives them the encouragement that, oh, if she's done it, I can do it too.

[00:26:58] So you've just touched on this in terms of visibility and representation. So how important is mentorship from leaders like yourself and helping women and also the younger generation to develop that Afro optimist mindset? Super important.

[00:27:19] I tell people that mentors, sponsors, coaches, champions, they all have different responsibilities and different expectations. But we can't do this alone. No one can do this alone. Man or woman, we can't do this alone. So so so the old adage that it takes a village to raise a child, it also takes a village to progress in your career and to succeed in your career.

[00:27:48] So the more people, the more quality that you can surround yourself with to learn from others. I'm still learning from others. I don't think you ever come to an age where you say, oh, I know it all. I don't need to learn anything from anyone anymore. I look at my dad, who is 72, will be 73 this year.

[00:28:11] And we're always discussing topics around AI and and and other apps, et cetera, because as a as a former professor, he's always eager to learn. He's still working. And so he's he's he's always looking at how we can bring this technology into the role that the very senior role that he has. And I think that's great. Right. It'd be very easy for him to say at my age.

[00:28:40] I don't need to learn any of this stuff. Let me leave it for the younger generation. But no, it doesn't do that. So that continuous learning, the peer mentoring, even reverse mentoring, I think is completely critical, especially in today's age. Impressive. Impressive. I like that. Thank you for sharing that.

[00:29:00] So if you were to give one piece of advice or something actionable to young Africans looking to build, whether it's a global business or just to develop the Afro optimist mindset, what would it be? Build your visibility, build your network. And so I tell people that the best time to build your network is when you don't need it.

[00:29:26] So that means that from the beginning, you're building those relationships. You're meeting with others, whether it's over a cup of tea or whether it's volunteering at your children's school or et cetera. There's many different places where we can meet others, but we need to be intentional about it. We need to follow up. We need to deliver value. It's not about taking from others, but giving to others.

[00:29:55] And when we consistently deliver value to others, whomever we meet throughout our years, we'll find at some point in our career when we need it, when we most need it, those people will be there to have our back. So that's the one to take away. I would leave for our listeners is build your network, build your visibility. Brilliant. I agree.

[00:30:20] So your network is key to your success as the quote is that your network is your net worth. Exactly. So I guess in your opinion, what does success look like for an Afro optimist, whether it's personally or professionally? For me, I say I do this for my kids, that I want my kids who are currently 11 and 9. So in the next decade, there'll be adults.

[00:30:47] So you're able to stand up proud as global Africans. Half African, half Turkish, half Nigerian, half Turkish. But to be able to stand up as proud global Africans, that they're proud of where they come from because of what their mom has accomplished, but also what their continent is accomplishing. I like that. I like that.

[00:31:09] I think one thing I'm aware of, I guess from a broader sense in terms of Afro optimism, our society continually changes and evolves. I believe the concept of Afro optimism also evolves as well. But are there any current trends when it comes to Afro optimism that you're currently seeing that you're excited about?

[00:31:32] Probably this seeing companies that have been born in Africa that are starting to transition into global markets. So whether it be Europe, whether it be South America, whether it even be Asia. In the past, it was always more about foreign multinationals coming into Africa.

[00:31:58] And now we're seeing, starting to see more frequently, even smaller startups, not just the traditional financial institutions like Access Bank, etc. But even smaller scale ups who have made that jump to the global stage already. I think that's really exciting. That's the right direction.

[00:32:19] So if we move from current trends and look at the future, from your perspective, what will Afro optimism look like in five to 10 years time? Oh, that's an interesting question. So, yeah, we'll have to continue to change what it will look like in five to 10 years time. It's hard for me to even imagine what the world will look like when my kids become adults.

[00:32:44] When I look at generative AI and how it's just transforming how we work today, I tell people that I can't even imagine setting up my company even five years back without all the tools and the AI assistance that we can get without having to build massive teams. And I suppose that trend will just get faster.

[00:33:11] So I'm actually really excited to see what the world will look like in five to 10 years. But it's also a cautionary tale to us as Africans is that we need to speed up our game. We need to not be left behind. Exactly. So if we look closer to home, how do you hope your book and the work that you're doing will influence or shape the Afro optimism movement in the next five to 10 years?

[00:33:37] Well, this book is meant as a first step for folks because there's a lot of great creative young founders out there who are or who need and maybe perhaps even looking for mentoring. And this is a book that can accompany them in their journey. Not everyone can have access to us. Not everyone can have access to ZR Consulting Africa.

[00:34:04] But through technology, everyone can have access to a good book. So the same way that I've read numerous books in my past when I moved to Germany, the first day or when I was planning to move to Germany, the first thing I did was read a bunch of books about German culture. When I was tapped to become CEO, the first thing I did was read a bunch of leadership books and turn around books.

[00:34:30] And so I hope and expect that Afro Optimism Unleashed will be one of those go to's when a young or youngish founder is looking to understand how best to set up their business sustainably. Then first on the list will be Afro Optimism Unleashed. Quote of the week. Last question.

[00:34:53] As people, we often have quotes, mantras, proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good. Do you have one that you can share with us today? So I would actually like to leave two quotes, one by someone else and then one directly from my book. So the first quote is by a gentleman called Zig Ziglar. Very cool name. Yes. And he says, your attitude, not your aptitude will determine your altitude.

[00:35:22] And I love that quote because I'm a firm believer that one should hire for mindset and not for skill set. Skill set can be trained. It can be learned. But it's very difficult to change someone's character, to change the way someone thinks. So that would be the first one. And then the second one would be my own. Even the most self-sufficient nation dances to a global tune.

[00:35:47] So this is what I mean when we talk about, for example, Wakanda, imaginary nation. But the whole concept was that they were very self-sufficient. But at some point, the changes in the global world impacted themselves as well. So we need to collaborate with others. We need to be part of the global system.

[00:36:11] Maybe that's going against what many people are believing nowadays with some of the political themes. But I firmly believe that we need to work globally to be able to solve our problems locally. Brilliant, brilliant. Thank you for sharing those. Excellent way to end today's conversation. It's been a fascinating and very interesting discussion. One that I've enjoyed. Also enjoyed reading the book.

[00:36:37] Although I had about three days to read in preparation for our discussion today. So I'm planning to go back and fully digest and read it slowly at my leisure, which I'm looking forward to. I think the book, it does offer a very powerful and actionable perspective on Africa's potential. And I'd highly recommend it to everyone listening today. And thank you, Adeolu, for joining us today. It's been fun. Thank you for having me.

[00:37:07] Thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share or tell a friend about it. You can also rate, review us in Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcast. Thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast.