The Battle for Africa's Financial Rails: Stablecoins, Regulators, Cross Border Payments and Trade with Mimi Kufuor

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa.

[00:00:30] So the volume is there. The liquidity is there. We just need to have the infrastructure and the tools to be able to translate all of that, I think. Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential. You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:55] Welcome to another episode of the Unlocking Africa Podcast, where we explore the ideas, innovations and strategies that are unlocking Africa's economic potential. Africa's biggest financial challenge isn't access, it's movement. Businesses across the continent still struggle to move money across borders efficiently, with fragmented systems, limited liquidity and high costs slowing down trade.

[00:01:22] At the same time, digital assets and stablecoins are starting to emerge as a new layer of financial infrastructure, not just for trading, but for real economic activity. In this episode, I'm joined by Mimi Kufour, CEO of CoinCoin, to break down what's actually changing and what it means for businesses operating across the continent. Mimi, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Unlocking Africa Podcast.

[00:01:51] Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here, so thanks. Absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. And how are you today? Fantastic. It's sunny, so, you know, I can't complain. Enjoying that rare British sunshine. Exactly, exactly. As always on the podcast, I like to start from the beginning, so I was hoping you can give us a nice introduction into who Mimi Kufour is.

[00:02:16] Sure. So, I'm the global COO of CoinCoin, which is a Pan-African digital assets exchange. Basically, it's a platform where you can buy, sell and trade crypto. We currently have regulatory recognition in Ghana and also Nigeria. So, yeah, that's kind of what the business is. It's a digital assets exchange. Thank you for that nice introduction.

[00:02:46] So, we're here to talk about the work that you're doing. As you mentioned, it's a digital assets exchange. We know that in Africa, we don't have a shortage of digital payments innovations. But yes, across the continent, we're seeing cross-border payments remain somewhat slow, expensive and fragmented. So, from your point of view in the work that you're doing at CoinCoin, what would you say is still fundamentally broken? That's a good question.

[00:03:14] I think Africa in general has really just inherited a lot of plumbing that actually isn't African. So, you know, when a business in Accra pays a supply in Lagos, the transaction in most cases does not settle between a Ghanaian bank and a Nigerian bank directly.

[00:03:33] It basically roots through correspondent banks sitting in New York or London and inevitably gets converted into dollars, then converted back to Naira or converted back into cities. And that basically takes about three to five days to clear. I think on average, intra-African cross-border payments typically cost around 8% on average. And I think the global average is about six and the UN target is three.

[00:04:02] So, as you can see, that 8% that we pay is just really highly punitive. So, I think really what doesn't work is the fact that the plumbing in Africa is not African and it has to root through all these correspondent banking. You know, I think Africa has done a great job with mobile money. You know, that's kind of solved a lot of the sort of inherent unbanked issues in Africa, especially in Ghana and Kenya, where mobile money is kind of champion.

[00:04:32] But that also doesn't solve the cross-border settlement layer. And I think that's really where the value kind of leaks out of the continent. And I think, you know, looking at it from a digital assets perspective, that really solves for that key issue of cross-border settlement, being able to trade within Africa. And, yeah, just kind of bring the continent together. So, yeah, I think that's kind of what I see as really being broken.

[00:04:59] The legacy systems that we use that really wasn't built for Africa. You've touched on something quite key there, which is the inherited broken infrastructure. So, would you say this has positioned the continent to build new financial infrastructure or are we having to retrofit existing systems?

[00:05:18] Um, let me start with some numbers, I would say, because it actually does surprise me how little people know about on-chain transactions being digital asset transactions and crypto transactions across the continent. So, sub-Sahara Africa received over $125 billion on-chain value in the year 2024 to 2025. And stablecoins accounted for about roughly 43% of that transaction volume.

[00:05:46] So, this is currently what's happening. This isn't the future. And I think there is just that assumption that Africa is behind, but actually we're leading. Um, and, you know, I think a lot of people say, oh, well, Africa's leapfrogging and, you know, all of that stuff. But actually what Africa is doing is building the primary rails in markets where, as I said, the legacy systems were never fully laid out for a majority of the population. You know, there are a lot of people that are unbanked, a lot of underserved.

[00:06:16] Um, just sort of, if you look at Europe, I think looking at their corresponding banking, that's been around for centuries. And for them, that's the way it's been set up. I think in Ghana and Nigeria, switching that sort of kind of structurally from something legacy to something new, like digital assets, is going to be a much sort of lower cost. Because the legacy systems have never really achieved that density within Africa.

[00:06:44] So, I think what it means from a sort of practicality perspective is that you have the sort of compliance first digital assets infrastructure, which really aren't competing with the banking rails. They are basically, they're becoming the rails. So, I think we're really uniquely positioned to really build that new infrastructure as opposed to kind of compete with the existing banks in terms of what they're offering. Because I think what they're offering is outdated and it just doesn't work for Africa.

[00:07:12] I think Africa has a different set of problems, which I think crypto is solving very differently to, you know, the problems that the West have and kind of crypto is solving for them. So, yeah, I think from a digital assets perspective, we're really building that new infrastructure, which is, you know, very much needed to just connect the continent seamlessly without friction and at a very low cost. You know, the amount of money we pay now for remittances is kind of mind blowing.

[00:07:42] And, you know, if you look at it holistically as a continent, the people who are actually in need of this money, they can't afford to have to pay such exorbitant fees. So, yeah, I think digital assets really presents that unique opportunity to do that, to really build those new financial rails for everyone. You shared some interesting numbers and figures in terms of what that means in practical terms for digital assets, crypto on the continent.

[00:08:09] We know that we're seeing stable coins moving from speculative instruments into, I guess, real payment tools across the continent. I want to get your perspective on this in terms of at what point do we stop seeing crypto as a speculative tool and becoming more part of the core financial infrastructure? I would say in sort of I think it's already here, really.

[00:08:36] I think it has moved from being speculative and it is kind of becoming more and more core infrastructure. You know, crypto has been around. I mean, the first Bitcoin was minted in 2009 or so. So it's been around for a while. But I think for Africa, you know, it started really gaining traction in maybe 20, 2018, 2017. But I think it's actually here.

[00:09:00] I think the language just hasn't caught up from a stable coin transaction volume globally that exceeded $27 trillion in 2024. And that's like more than Visa card and Mastercard combined. So I think when you look at African trade corridors, stable coins are no longer a speculative instrument. It's really how real businesses move money.

[00:09:23] And if you look at the sort of African currency landscape, there is a real need to have, you know, to kind of transact in a stable value. A lot of the currencies, you know, there's affected by inflation, FX fluctuations. So I feel like there's just that sort of basic use case for Africans to really to use something like a stable coin. I think now the regulations are also catching up. You have the Genius Act.

[00:09:53] You've got Mika in Europe. So I think the more stable coins get regulated, the more and more, you know, in people's mind, it stops being just crypto and just starts being money. In my mind, it's already happening. But I think the narrative and the story still needs to catch up because people, I mean, I guess Africa is always overlooked in a sense of, you know, progression.

[00:10:15] But I think people who are really close to geopolitics and what's happening in the world and have a true understanding of money understand what's going on in Africa. I mean, Nigeria is the second largest, they are the second largest adopters of crypto globally after India. So that's really telling you a story that actually it's here and it is the current financial infrastructure.

[00:10:36] I think it's just a matter of its scaling across the continent and, you know, looking at things like passporting, which will help ease the compliance burden of being able to set up in different jurisdictions.

[00:10:48] But I think if we look at it, it's here, it's now and it's just going to be a matter of time before sort of the, you know, the compliant operators are able to scale across the continent and give people the infrastructure that's needed to really underpin, you know, cross-border trade and just, you know, sort of an everyday store of value for themselves.

[00:11:14] Yeah, I mean, you've just slightly touched on this in terms of cross-border trade and trade corridor. So, you know, in practical terms, when a business tries to move money between markets such as Nigeria, Ghana, where exactly do you believe the system breaks? I think it's pretty simple, you know. At the moment, we use a lot of legacy banking systems, right, as I said before.

[00:11:39] So a Ghanaian importer paying a Nigerian supplier in dollars today, they'll go through a local bank, but then it routes through New York or London. It touches three or five intermediary banks before it even lands. There's an intermediary fee. There's delays. There's, you know, compliance reviews. And then this ends up taking three or five days. You know, the city then gets converted into dollars. The Naira gets converted into dollars.

[00:12:07] And it's basically the FX spread gets paid twice. I think when you look at stable coins or in any sort of crypto that's being used, granted, there is a stable coin bridge between the two local currencies. But it also means that, you know, you're able to kind of come out of the local currency into another local currency very quickly within minutes, as a matter of fact. So that cuts out all of that sort of delay and processing time. And it also means you're paying less in fees. Right.

[00:12:37] So it's also just a lot more efficient from that perspective. I think in terms of just looking at the exchange that we offer, being able to help some of this trade happen. I think that really is the future, you know, from, I guess, lower fees to just being able to transact in a matter of minutes, not days. I think that genuinely is the next phase.

[00:13:02] I think for me, in my mind, having a regulated local currency stable coin really is the future for Africa. Being able to just from an ease perspective, just having a digital currency for each country, I think just makes it easier, even easier to trade. And then this will obviously create deep cross-pair liquidity as well, which is what we're lacking.

[00:13:27] I know, obviously, like the sort of Naira to USDT is deeply liquid, but, you know, it's not it's not the same for the city to the USDT. So I think once we have these local digital currencies, we're also able to create those liquidity pairs. And then also converting from a sort of digital city to a digital Naira, we can then agree between ourselves the interest rates. Right. And then we don't need a dollar back stable coin to sit in the middle as a bridge.

[00:13:57] So I think, you know, this is kind of what the likes of Coincoin is building for. And this is kind of what we're positioning ourselves to to enable across across the continent. Fantastic. So as you mentioned earlier, stable coins are no longer speculative and are becoming part of the real infrastructure. So we know that early adoption is not a challenge when it comes to stable coins and cross-border payments. But are we seeing any challenges when it comes to scaling that?

[00:14:27] Yeah. You know, I think when you kind of look at the whole stable coin adoption, there are a few bottlenecks. Naturally, you know, nothing ever runs smoothly when it comes to money. But if you look at it, I would say they're about I would say there are three main bottlenecks. From my perspective, I would say the first one is just regulatory clarity on the off ramp side.

[00:14:53] So, I mean, like if we sort of even take it a step back when sort of the whole crypto frenzy started looking at it in Nigeria. And, you know, when Binance was banned and kicked out, like even before that, there was a lot of P2P sort of ways of kind of coming in and out of the sort of USDT into local currency. So you would basically just trade peer to peer.

[00:15:17] And I think now that things have matured a bit more since then, it's knowing that you're able to come out of the USDT into Nairo City. So I think it's more kind of businesses needing to know that when they receive stable coin payment, they can convert this into a local currency. And I think that's still developing across, you know, the different African markets. That's still a little bit uneven across, you know, each of the each of the markets.

[00:15:43] Yes, you know, you have a lot of PSPs, which help with that sort of off ramping. But, you know, a couple of years ago, it really was just peer to peer. And actually, in some markets, it is still peer to peer. So I think that's one bottleneck. But that's, you know, slowly getting better. As I said, loads of PSPs, which is great. And I think also, secondly, there's a sort of treasury education. You know, digital assets and crypto are still very new.

[00:16:09] A lot of CFOs in the African markets have never held digital assets on their balance sheets. Right. So the bottleneck isn't necessarily the technology. It's kind of, you know, the finance team having to ask, well, how do I account for this? How do I audit it? How do I even report this to the tax authority? You know, and I think that's just a muscle that we're yet to build. And, you know, it is it is getting better, of course.

[00:16:34] And then thirdly, I think we have to think of the liquidity depth in local currency stablecoins. As I said, the sort of USDT to Naira is very deep. When you look at the Citi to Naira stablecoin pairs, those don't even exist yet. But because of those things, it will take a while for things to actually fully scale.

[00:16:56] So I think if you look at it from an adoption perspective, once we start getting more local stablecoins, then I think naturally the liquidity will also happen. And I think that will also help adoption and, you know, scaling things across the board, because I think that really is the missing piece.

[00:17:16] So, you know, all of that kind of is partly due to regulation, partly due to market making and partly just due to having a sort of regulated local currency stablecoins. And I think we're fast advancing to that sort of landscape. You know, we have the CNGN in Nigeria. I know South Africa has one. I think Kenya is piloting one, but South Africa has a local stablecoin as well.

[00:17:37] So I think really what I'd love to see is, you know, most African countries just developing their own stablecoins backed by local currency bonds or sort of whatever assets they need to back those stablecoins. But just for it to actually just be in existence, because otherwise I think Africa really just locks itself out of the digital money play.

[00:18:00] You know, if I had a US dollar stablecoin and I wanted to transact in sort of local Ghanaian city, it would be great if we actually had a digital Ghanaian city version of that or even a Naira version of that or a Kenyan Chilean version of that. So then, you know, I actually don't even need to spend fiat. I can just hold everything in digital currency in my wallet. You know, I don't have to worry about having cash. And, you know, I think that's really where things are moving to.

[00:18:27] But, you know, until that happens, adoption will be a little bit slow. Regulation also needs to be clearer and catch up and evolve. And, you know, I think all those things are happening in tandem. I guess not as quickly as we would like, but I'm really I'm really happy that at least the conversations are starting.

[00:18:46] People are starting to see the real value of having local stablecoins, local currency stablecoins and also realizing the real dollarization problem if we don't do it. So, yeah. So we've spoken about the infrastructure element, which obviously doesn't exist in isolation. It's shaped by regulation. So if you look at two markets that you operate in Nigeria and Ghana, they've taken two very different regulatory paths. So how do you operate across both?

[00:19:17] I'll be honest, it's not easy, but I think we as a digital assets exchange business, we've always put compliance first. So as much as that's been sort of painful and slow in the sense of, you know, things have not moved as quickly as, you know, we would have hoped. And it's also kind of building the relationship with the regulators over the years, which, you know, you know, all of that time spent, I guess you could have been like built first and make money and, you know, do all of those things.

[00:19:45] But we've taken a more cautious approach of being regulated first. But of course, that doesn't come, you know, that comes with its challenges. Being sort of regulated in Ghana under the VASP Act in 2025 and then being sort of regulated under the CBN crypto AML pilot just means that there'll be different things that we have to kind of look out for. You know, we're building separate legal entities.

[00:20:13] We'll have separate compliance teams and we basically will have to engage each regulator on its own terms. But I think what is shared is, you know, sort of single compliance philosophy from an AML perspective, custody and governance standards. I think those are shared across the board between the two countries. But I think what really needs to happen is just to have interoperable principles.

[00:20:41] I think, you know, a lot of the regulation today is rules-based principles that the VASP has been built on. But I think what will really be helpful is to have more of an interoperable principles-based framework. You know, we have so many frameworks across Africa now in South Africa, Mauritius, Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya. And I think, yes, we all share sort of common threads from a financial action task force perspective. So there's substance underneath that.

[00:21:10] But I think having sort of more principle-based frameworks would help bring things together. So operating between Ghana and Nigeria, as much as there is that having to engage the different regulators in a slightly different way, I do think that there are shared philosophies when it comes to certain things that, you know, make it easier to coordinate. But, of course, you know, when it comes to compliance, naturally, each country will be different.

[00:21:39] And there will be that little bit of a compliance overhead that we have to deal with. So, yeah, I think, you know, even if you look at the MECA regulation, it's similar in the sense that they have all these sort of principles that run common across, you know, the various EU jurisdictions. And I think that's something we can look at. I don't think it's going to be a copy and paste, but I think that that would sort of help digital assets exchanges or businesses be interoperable,

[00:22:09] just, you know, sharing similar principles in that respect. But, yeah, it's definitely not been easy. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it'll, you know, even just from a cultural perspective, you know, even though Ghana and Nigeria are very close in proximity, the cultures are also very different. How you would deal with Nigerian regulators, not the same way you would engage with a Ghanaian regulator.

[00:22:33] Right. And it's all those nuances that you have to take into consideration, even if there was a solid passporting regime. Those are things that you just the almost intangible relationship building things that you you almost, you know, take for granted, you know, and building those relationships. It comes with trust. It comes with, you know, just years of building those things. And you can't you can't really put a price on that.

[00:23:00] But it's very costly as well if you don't have those relationships. So, yeah, for us, you know, I think the key is building those relationships in the different markets and having that local ownership and knowing what to do in which country and how to engage in which country. But ultimately, just having a common interoperable principles would help make those things easier from, I guess, a passporting perspective as well.

[00:23:25] So you touched on the engagement with regulators across multiple markets, I guess, Nigeria, Ghana. But from your direct engagement with regulators, where would you say you've seen the biggest or the most genuine shift in thinking about stable coins or digital assets? I think I would commend the regulators. They've all done an amazing job. It can't be easy regulating such a huge market.

[00:23:51] And I think people really underestimate just how big the crypto market is. I mean, it's valued in trillions. And in Africa, a lot of that isn't even reported because there are a lot of exchanges that actually are not regulated. And so you could even double that number. So it's a huge, huge undertaking. So I want to commend all the regulators for the great work that they have done.

[00:24:15] And I think what has changed, if you look at it five years ago, a lot of the regulation was more suspicion and restriction. And to be honest, I don't blame them. You know, there's a huge skepticism when it comes to crypto and digital assets, just because of, you know, a lot of exchanges that have failed like FTX and, you know, a lot of the bad news press that it has gotten. So I think we've moved from that sort of posture of suspicion and restriction.

[00:24:43] And we're now actually, you know, we're enacting bills, we're enacting frameworks and having, you know, standing up sandboxes. Ghana has started the Bank of Ghana sandbox and then the Securities Exchange sandbox. So I think that's sort of the material change in the theory of regulation, you know, from gatekeeping to co-development. I know in Zimbabwe, they have a framework as well and they are doing pilots and sandboxes.

[00:25:10] So I think we've moved from that sort of straight out restrictions and banning to kind of sandbox and testing innovative products and understanding things better and actually working with the operators and being able to understand the market space even more. And I think that is really the best approach in being able to co-create the sort of the regulation in the space in general.

[00:25:34] I think where maybe there is a little bit of misalignment is maybe the economic model of a licensed operator, you know, local participation requirements and also capital thresholds. Some of these are a little bit punitive. When you look at it from a startup perspective, you know, having two million dollars as a capital requirement isn't something that a small startup could easily come by.

[00:26:01] And I think, you know, we they kind of maybe underestimate just how much some of these things can affect and stifle innovation and growth within the industry. I think what they need to do is not compare it to your sort of traditional bank margins, because with crypto, crypto operates on a much thinner margin, but higher volume. And that's something that they probably need to reassess and look at again or evolve as the space is growing.

[00:26:31] Because as I said, you know, a lot of the operators aren't licensed. And if you are not able to enact regulations that supports their growth and supports them being able to scale, then you're kind of just pushing everyone into some sort of underground black market because, you know, if they can't meet the requirements, then what do they do? And if they're a viable business that actually is generating revenue and they do have, you know, valid users, then, you know, it's kind of not helpful.

[00:27:01] So I think there's a little bit of misalignment there. But I believe with these sandboxes in place and with everything that's happening, those are learnings that will come out of the sandboxes and the pilots. And so I think the hope is to evolve and issue guidelines that are more supportive in respect to what is actually happening on the ground and the economic reality of some of these exchanges and digital assets businesses.

[00:27:27] I guess as things develop and regulation take shape, we're seeing governments themselves are no longer just observers. They're actually becoming active players. We're seeing governments explore national stable coins and digital currencies. So from your perspective, do you think these initiatives complement what the private sector plays or building or are we heading towards competing financial infrastructure? That's a good question.

[00:27:56] And I know central bank digital currencies have always gotten a bad rap just because people feel like their surveillance, you know, they're monitoring what I'm doing. How I'm spending and it's kind of I guess they feel like it's similar to fiat. So what's the point? You know, if they can freeze my digital currency as they could freeze fiat, then why would I use this?

[00:28:19] But I think if it's designed properly, I think it can be complementary in terms of having a private stable coin and having a government backed stable coin. I think it just, you know, it just needs to be designed properly. I mean, if you look at Nigeria's CNGN, that's a regulated private Naira stable coin and that's doing really well. And, you know, Ghana is going to introduce a gold backed token as well.

[00:28:49] That also poses other questions about sort of reserve transparencies and all of that. And these are all things that we need to take into consideration. You know, I don't think anyone is saying stable coins or a local backed stable coin is going to be the savior of the day and it's going to solve all our problems. But I think it's like a step in the right direction for where the continent needs to be from a sovereignty perspective. But I think central banks and private operators are essentially they're really solving for different problems.

[00:29:18] Central banks are obviously trying to modernize monetary policy, transmission and, you know, obviously preserve sovereignty. And private operators such as some of the CNGN, they're basically trying to build usable rails that actually move money for businesses and consumers.

[00:29:35] So, you know, they're both kind of solving for different problems, which is why I think if designed properly, they really can be complementary, but ultimately needs to be looked at because the central banks do have an important role to play as well. We can't dismiss that if they get locked out of the digital money play for them. It'll become harder to even implement monetary tools and control in the digital space.

[00:30:02] So I think it just needs a little bit of thinking and design around it. But I think both can exist. I think it's in the Bahamas. I might not be right. Don't quote me on this, but there is a Caribbean island that actually CBDCs are really popular and they've really taken off and the adoption rates are really good. So I think it's possible. And I know in Ghana, there's a sort of e-city pilot as well that's happened.

[00:30:28] And so I think, you know, the governments and the central banks, they're all thinking about it because it makes sense from that perspective. Everything's going digital. I can't remember the last time I spent cash. And this is as far back as COVID, you know, because no one wanted to touch money and spread the virus. So I think that's the future. But yeah, it needs to be designed properly, I think. But it's definitely something that definitely makes sense.

[00:30:56] And I don't think we need to think of it as a competition. I think both can exist. I think naturally people will utilize or adopt something that's private as opposed to something that's government. But I still think it needs to exist. I think this raises a bigger question. It's no longer just about technology or regulation, but about how money and power are evolving.

[00:31:19] So if we look at currency, power and control, basically, we know that most stable coins today are dollar denominated. And in practical terms, I was wondering, are we effectively digitizing dollarization across African economies? I would say so. I am. I'm a pan-Africanist, so I'm very much pro doing things on the continent and really taking control of our narrative.

[00:31:49] And I think the minute you start to use U.S. dollar stable coin, you're kind of importing monetary policy into your economy. And the reality is it's not just Africa. Let's be honest. The majority of the stable coins that exist today are basically dollar backed. Right. So it's a problem all economies and all sort of sovereign nations are facing. If you look at Europe, they have to develop their own euro backed stable coin.

[00:32:19] If you look at the U.K., they also have to do that. Otherwise, they will fall prey to the same issues and problems. I think for Africa, it's kind of more important because we have so many other basic issues that we are solving for. But I think the answer isn't really that we, you know, we completely don't or we stop using a dollar denominated stable coin. I think that isn't really the solution, obviously, because there's deep liquidity when you use a dollar backed stable coin.

[00:32:48] And that's really the reason why people run to it. So I think obviously there is the reflexive response usually is to restrict or ban. But I think the evidence is kind of clear. If you start restricting or banning that, then it just the market just moves to a peer to peer informal system. But you really want to keep things in the formal system and regulate it.

[00:33:08] So I think, you know, you obviously can't ban demand, but you can you can basically set the regulations up so that, you know, it actually sits within your regulatory oversight and purview. I think when we look at sort of monetary sovereignty, it's not it's not preserved by restriction. It's kind of more built, I would say, by capacity.

[00:33:32] I think, you know, genuine sovereignty requires African issued, regulated, deeply liquid local currency digital assets that business, you know, businesses can use without touching the dollar at all. And so until we get to that space and place, I think, you know, it's going to be, you know, kind of using both until we actually get to a place where we have our own local currency stable coins.

[00:33:59] But I think for me, it's the future. I don't think it's one over the other. I think the sooner we're able to develop local backed stable coins, then there'll be less of a need to actually use the dollar. It'll still be used, of course. Everything's quoted in dollars. That's just a worldwide thing that happens. Right. So it's not like we're going to ever get rid of that. But I think there'll be less of a dependence and reliance on it if we have our own local ones. And then we just slowly start to build the liquidity within those local currencies.

[00:34:28] I know there's obviously skepticism because it's like, well, we don't trust the local currency. So turning, you know, making it digital doesn't solve the underlying problem. But I think we need to reframe it and kind of shift our minds away from the inherent problems the currencies have. Yes, they have those problems. We're not disagreeing and they need to be fixed. But the reality is we actually need to create the liquidity.

[00:34:53] And so by having that digital version of a local currency, that's kind of where you start to build that liquidity. And then you start to be able to have currency pairs where you don't need the dollar as a conversion bridge. You just, you know, between the Bank of Ghana and the Bank of Nigeria, they agree an exchange rate between themselves. And I think that's really how I would like to see the landscape developing. And I genuinely hope that's kind of where we're heading. But, you know, it's not it's not going to happen in five minutes.

[00:35:22] This is really something that will happen over, you know, the next three to five years. The Genius Act, I think that was explicitly designed to entrench dollar dominance through stable coins. So I think if African banks, African central banks do not respond with capability rather than, you know, just prohibiting, then, you know, the sovereignty question itself is going to go in a direction that we don't like.

[00:35:49] And I think with digital assets, there's a real opportunity for Africa to take control of its narrative. We have the resources. We have the natural resources. We have everything on the continent, more so than many other continental countries.

[00:36:02] So I think it's about sort of really understanding the digital assets landscape, understanding the opportunities, working with the likes of exchanges like myself and, you know, kind of being able to give people those options to use local backed stable coins. And also investors to feel comfortable now that the regulations are there to feel comfortable to invest in African built exchanges like ourselves, you know, because I think really,

[00:36:32] we have to invest in ourselves and in our own market as opposed to, you know, running to the West for solutions because our problems are not their problems at all, you know. And if you look at the landscape, you know, Nigeria is a huge economy. So is Ghana. So is Kenya. So is South Africa. So there's a huge play there in terms of numbers. The on-chain transactions are mind-blowing. So the volume is there. The liquidity is there.

[00:36:59] We just need to have the infrastructure and the tools to be able to translate all of that, I think. So you've touched on the concerns around monetary sovereignty and capital control. So against that backdrop, you know, of shifting regulations and macro pressure, I wanted to bring it back to the execution. I know CoinCoin has positioned itself as a voice of reason in the digital asset space.

[00:37:25] So in an industry that we often see as quickly changing and moving, what does that mean in terms of the decisions you choose to make or not to make? I'm going to frame it as more what we've said no to. From the start, we've always been about compliance first. So we've said no to operating in markets without meaningful regulatory engagement, even when the short-term revenue was real. So that's been a big cost to us.

[00:37:55] And we've also said no to custody structures, which would have been cheaper and faster. So I think for us, really, it's the things that we've actually said no to that have put us in a position where we are now. We now have the regulatory footprint in Ghana and Nigeria. And now we can work with the regulators in being able to build out that infrastructure.

[00:38:23] I think really what is the differentiator is discipline, you know, because in a market like crypto, a lot of people do build first and then, you know, deal with the, I guess, the repercussions later. And I think for us, you know, saying no is really or has really been a product decision. And it's what kind of makes regulators look at you as credible.

[00:38:50] It's, you know, it's really what will help you survive the next cycle because, you know, you have built the infrastructure to take into account all the regulatory requirements, all the things you said no to. You're kind of building that infrastructure based on that as opposed to having to retrofit it because you built first and you moved fast.

[00:39:11] And now you're having to, you know, change the way your business model works because the compliance requirements, you know, are so huge. And, you know, some operators may not even survive that. You know, if you are a small startup and you all of a sudden have all these reporting requirements and you have to do something from a KYC or AML perspective, which means you have to change how your system works or whatever it may be.

[00:39:38] Even down to even putting up billboards that you've paid for now that the regulation is in place and you no longer can put up those billboards. You know, that's all kind of costs that you have to bear in order to kind of retrofit. And I think for us, we've always thought of, I guess, trust in the sense of once you gain the trust of the people, then really that is your competitive advantage.

[00:40:02] And being able to work with the regulators, being credible, being recognized by them gives us that credibility, gives us that competitive moat. And it's really just about trust. You know, if you look at mobile money, that only scaled when there was trust. It was very much when it first came, it was very much, you know, this is a scam. I don't know how this works, you know, similar to crypto. Right.

[00:40:24] And once you're able to develop that trust, once the guardrails are in place, once the regulators issue, you know, these guidelines and they name the companies that are credible because they've gone through various due diligence and checks, then you really gain the trust of the consumers. And I think the consumers are at the center of everything, because once you have their trust, they will come back. They will be like, right, that's the trusted exchange I want to use. I know my money won't get lost.

[00:40:51] I know my account won't be frozen. I know that, you know, if things don't go right, the regulators will also know who they are. And, you know, there will be there will be repercussions.

[00:41:04] So I think a lot of the decisions early on that we decided not to make because we had a compliance first philosophy is really kind of what's put us in the position that we are in now being having a regulatory footprint in Ghana and in parallel in Nigeria.

[00:41:22] And I think given the landscape of so many operators not being regulated, I think it's really is going to be a completely competition going forward where compliance will be first. And that will literally be what carries you forward into the next cycle and the next phase and allows you to scale. Right. Because inevitably, that's where the digital assets market is heading. If we want it to be used at scale, there needs to be regulations.

[00:41:52] There's no there's no avoiding that. Everyone wants to feel safe and everyone should feel safe. And I think it's the responsibility of the Securities Exchange, the Bank of Ghana, government bodies to provide that safety. So that's kind of how I would frame it. So if we look out from everything that we've discussed today, from regulation to infrastructure to power control strategy,

[00:42:15] look at the bigger picture, you know, if you had to name the one thing that needs to happen to unlock for, you know, African digital assets to reach their full potential by 2030, what would you say that would be? I would say regulatory harmonization. And I've touched on this earlier in terms of the interoperable principles. But I think the thing that really is missing is interoperability.

[00:42:45] You know, Momo came and solved a whole bunch of issues, which was great for the unbanked, underserved. But I think the next layer is interoperability. And I think just given the fact that Africa is so fragmented, we have 54 countries, it's unrealistic to expect that each country is going to have the exact same vast framework and licensing across the board. That's just not realistic. That's not going to happen.

[00:43:12] So I think when we think about the future, we have to think about harmonization through some of these interoperable principles that I've that I've mentioned. Right. You know, the capital is here. We have African focused funds. We have global strategics that are actively deploying. The talent is also here. We have such a young tech savvy population, the youngest in the world, really. So everything is here and user adoption is growing.

[00:43:40] Sub-Saharan Africa is consistently in the top three regions globally for crypto adoption. So I think everything is here that would make it possible to basically achieve the sort of scale that we want. I think the regulators just need to align more on the principles. And that's not you know, that doesn't have to be identical rules, but it has to be principles that are aligned enough to let licensed operators scale across borders.

[00:44:09] And I think once you're able to do that, you know, you you you kind of you're you show credibility within the market. If you're an operator that can operate successfully across different, you know, five different countries on the continent, then. And yeah, that's that's really I think that's really the unlock. And I think for Coincoin, that really is the goal to be able to operate across the various different regions within Africa just to really bring that cross border trade together.

[00:44:39] I think that's really missing in Africa. Yes, we have remittance costs. Yes. You know, we have all this settlement issues. But I think what really would unlock a lot of capital and money is just the inter into African trade, which is really it's really missing, you know, from a kind of business to business perspective. That's a huge chunk of money just waiting to be unlocked.

[00:45:03] And I think once we get the interoperability in place, that will be yeah, that will be revolutionary for the continent. So I think, you know, it's not going to happen overnight. But I think it's sort of, you know, if these things happen, then Africa, you know, does stand a chance of becoming one of the largest digital assets economies in the world by 2030.

[00:45:29] You know, we don't want to end up with 54 small markets, you know, being kind of served by non-African platforms. We want to take control of the narrative. We want it to be African. But, you know, we also need it to be interoperable because of the sheer fragmentation of the continent. The regulations also cannot be punitive and they need to be clear.

[00:45:53] There needs to be clarity for investors, for people operating, you know, so that the landscape really scales and develops. And I think, yeah, I think that's the unlock and everything follows. There's so many conferences, you know, I know there's so many trade unions and, you know, ECOWAS and so many other organizations and bodies that are really seriously thinking about all of this, all of these things.

[00:46:22] So I think we're in the right place. I think we're heading in the right direction. And yeah, I'm super, super, super excited for what's to come. Just, you know, being able to send money to Nigeria, especially for me, because I love shopping and Nigerian fashion is amazing. So whenever I go to Lagos and I'm not able to use my international card or I can only withdraw a certain amount of money from the cash point, it's highly traumatic because I can't buy the clothes I need.

[00:46:52] So for me, just even at a basic level, just even doing things like that, I think would be, you know, it would be, yeah, it would be phenomenal. And I think that's where we're heading. We're getting there slowly but surely. And yeah, it's exciting to be part of it at this point in time, you know, being able to be part of that story, being able to write that story alongside the regulators is, you know, it's really quite life changing.

[00:47:21] And I think it's one of the reasons why I kind of jumped into digital assets when I did, because my background has been traditional finance. But it also has given me that rigor from a risk and compliance perspective, which I can now then apply to running an exchange in Africa, because I understand the mindset. I understand what's missing and I get how money moves. I get how capital moves.

[00:47:47] So it's really helped me kind of build a compliance first framework and infrastructure when it comes to sort of building and running the exchange. But yeah, it's great. Great time to be alive is what I'll say. So with that in mind, what role do you see CoinCoin playing in that bright future? I think it's pretty simple.

[00:48:13] I think for us, it's to be the sort of proof point that compliance first, African built, kind of a multi-digital asset infrastructure is not only possible, but it is the model. You know, the West African corridor where I guess Nigeria and Ghana are the only two Anglophone countries in that corridor. So for us to have that regulatory recognition in both is huge, it's monumental.

[00:48:40] And for us, we want to prove that it works. It can work and it will work. And I think that will be the starting point for the interoperability across the whole continent. If we can prove that it works within West Africa, then, you know, why wouldn't it work anywhere else? You know, so I think, yeah, this is the direction of travel and the role we would like to play in establishing the fact that the continent can be interoperable.

[00:49:09] And it should be. And that should be the future in a compliant way, of course. Quote of the week. As people, we often have quotes, mantras, African proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good. Do you have one that you can share with us today? Yes, there actually is one. I don't remember exactly how it goes, but it's like if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together.

[00:49:37] And I feel like this is particularly pertinent for Africa because as much as, you know, we are fragmented, we're all still African. And for me, I've often always said I don't see any other exchanges or any other businesses who operate within the digital asset space as competition. I think for me, it's a bigger picture than that. It's about sovereignty for the continent. And I feel like we are all architects in developing what the future looks like.

[00:50:06] So we all play a part, however small, however big, in being able to give Africa that voice, give Africa the opportunity to be more sovereign. And for me, yeah, the digital assets play is just a unique opportunity for us to really revolutionize how money works, how people think about money and how it serves us and how, you know, it brings value to the continent. So I think it's a group effort. It's a community effort. I know Africa is all about community anyways.

[00:50:36] And I feel it's sad that we're so fragmented due to, you know, colonization. And I think we just need to throw that sort of neo-colonialism away and just move together as one people, one continent in working towards very similar goals. I think we all want the same thing and we can all achieve it if we work together. So that's what I'll say. Brilliant. Perfect way to finish today's conversation.

[00:51:02] That has been a very, very in-depth but enjoyable and educational conversation for myself. I guess it's one thing I've taken from this conversation is that digital assets in Africa are no longer just a conversation about innovation. They are increasingly a conversation about infrastructure. So if Africa is going to unlock trader scale, fixing how money moves across the continent is not optional.

[00:51:28] And I guess we've heard today these assets are not just an alternative. They are becoming part of that reality, part of that infrastructure. So Mimi, thank you for joining us today to share your skills, knowledge and experience. Thanks for having me. And I hope this helps people just understand the scale within Africa when it comes to digital assets, because it's huge. And, you know, I'm just very pro-African and pro-digital assets.

[00:51:57] And so I hope listening to this would, you know, at least help one or two people understand what's at stake and the opportunity. So, yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share or tell a friend about it. You can also rate, review us in Apple podcast or wherever you download your podcast. Thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast.