Seeds of Change: How Access to High-Quality Seeds Can Revolutionise Potato Farming in Africa With Charles Miller

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast.

[00:00:30] The seed industry and the food industry understand that there's a need to work together.

[00:00:35] We can both have a big impact for me that's exciting.

[00:00:38] I really like that space as well.

[00:00:40] Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential.

[00:00:47] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:55] Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find people who are doing amazing things to unlock Africa's economic potential.

[00:01:06] Today, we have Charles Miller, who is director of strategic alliances and development at Solinter.

[00:01:14] Charles also serves as a board member of the African Seed Trade Association.

[00:01:21] Welcome, welcome, welcome Charles. How are you?

[00:01:24] I'm doing well, Terser. Thank you very much and thanks for having me on the program.

[00:01:28] I look forward to telling you what Solinter's all about, what we're doing and taking the questions about improving conditions in Africa and doing business there as well.

[00:01:40] Fantastic. Thank you. Looking forward to the conversation.

[00:01:43] Before we get started, I was hoping you could please introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about Charles.

[00:01:51] No, thanks for that. So not too much to tell quite frankly, I grew up in Texas grew up in a farming community where my father was a professor in genetics at the local AG University.

[00:02:05] So as you can imagine, I spent a tremendous amount of my young life working in research farms and commercial farms.

[00:02:11] Later went on to study agriculture, economics, Texas A&M and receive bachelor's and master's there.

[00:02:19] And several years working in a large food company, Mars incorporated. I think it's quite familiar with Mars.

[00:02:27] You can't be borrow company. That allowed me to understand how very big corporates think about agricultural commodities and inputs.

[00:02:35] And is there a global company? It was a tremendous opportunity for learning later on. Back to our family's seed production company and serve there as the commercial director for many, many years until we sold the company.

[00:02:49] And since then I've worked at a couple of other large seed companies developing particularly outside of the US as you can tell.

[00:02:57] I'm an American, but most of my working life I've been based out of the US outside of the US sorry. And I spent the last 30 years working very hard for several companies, including in salintana for the last six years to bring a high quality starting material or seed to the farmers in Africa and other parts of the developing world Southeast Asia and Central America.

[00:03:24] Thank you, Frida. I guess it's quite clear that you have a long history of working in the farming in agriculture space. You also work with some of the major plays like Pepsi cars and buyer.

[00:03:38] And as you mentioned, you also run your own family seed agriculture company. So how do these experiences differ? And what awesome the key lessons you've taken away from both experiences?

[00:03:51] That's a really good question because as you can imagine the large corporations and the family businesses do think a bit differently and have different risk profiles.

[00:04:01] And I would also say in the time, which rightly point out has been quite a while as much as 30 years that I've been working in Africa goals have changed as well.

[00:04:12] You know, now we're very aware of the impacts of climate change. We're also very aware of the developing economy and Africa likely to be one of the largest economies in the world.

[00:04:24] That's one of the most youngest populations in the world, which means there will be a tremendous amount of change there.

[00:04:31] And the seed companies and major ag companies, of course, want to be involved in that change.

[00:04:37] Of course, every company is interested in making a profit. But they're also interested typically in doing good and being sustainable, particularly in the agricultural environment.

[00:04:49] Big companies are willing to look at things in a much longer term. And that's actually if you go to Salenta's agreement with buyer what we're doing. We're looking at the long term and making a real impact in not only people's lives but also in the sustainability and the quality of the soil for the planet.

[00:05:07] Family companies on the other hand, cash flows typically more tight. The time horizons a bit shorter while at our family company we were still very interested in providing like quality products to very small, sometimes subsistence farmers.

[00:05:23] We also knew that we needed a short term return so therefore cash flow was more important. And that of course impacts how you do business.

[00:05:33] But at the same time I would say that small companies, particularly in the ag world are also very aware of the climate impacts and the desire to just simply do good.

[00:05:44] So you've given us great insights in terms of the differences between working with some of the major plays and industry and also running a family company which that experiences led you to the great work that you're doing now at Salenta.

[00:05:59] And I know Salenta is central to Salenta's work is hybrid breeding. So I wonder if you can give us an explanation of what that is in terms of, what is the clear distinction of hybrid breeding and what differentiates it from what people might already know in terms of things such as GMOs.

[00:06:20] Okay, yeah that's a complicated question. I'll try to make a succinct answer for you. So hybrid breeding has been around for a very long time.

[00:06:32] It's commonly used in crops like maize, sunflower, sorghum, meadows, many others as well. It's also completely GMO free and to make a very simple hybrid breeding is something that would occur in nature.

[00:06:48] A B for example, might fly from one plant and gather pollen and then fly to another plant that pollen that was on the B because of course they're collecting pollen would be transferred to the second plant.

[00:07:01] And that then would fertilize the second plant and allow it to produce seed of a combination of those two let's call them parents. Right, so there would be in a way a natural evolution of that particular flower or plant.

[00:07:18] And with hybrid breeding you can direct that and by combining hybrid breeding with all the new science that is non GMO like understanding the genome and which genes controlled disease resistances and which genes control for example,

[00:07:36] and it's called a cateos color of the skin in the flesh or the cooking quality. We can then start to direct those activities that the B, in my example did randomly. And so that allows us to create very customized hybrids for consumers but also for growers.

[00:07:57] And this customization and direction means that we can move quite quickly to create solutions to grow worse problems.

[00:08:05] On the other hand GMOs are introducing foreign DNA into a plant so for example if it's maze they're introducing non maize DNA into the plant as a carrier of the particular trait they're looking for.

[00:08:20] And that in a very simplistic way is the difference between those two types of research and breeding. Thank you for sharing us so hybrid breeding is something that is seen naturally so is it a process that is already widely practiced with an African agriculture.

[00:08:37] So it's that that also is a really complicated question believe it or not. It's sound simple but it's quite complicated.

[00:08:47] Hybrid crops are quite common in Africa and over the last 15 years they have been growing in acceptance but as you can imagine.

[00:08:57] If the majority of the farmers in their agricultural practices are used to saving their own seed and replanting that seed then the idea of going out and buying perhaps slightly more expensive seeds not so appealing to them.

[00:09:12] But the seed companies realize this and what they've they've changed in the last 10 years instead of simply putting a new product on the shelf and saying this is good you should buy it.

[00:09:24] What they're doing now is working directly with farmer co-ops with other seed companies with other products for example maze companies might be working with vegetable companies or sort of companies might be working with an ad chemical fertilizer distributor.

[00:09:41] And they've actually put demonstration plots in the major growing areas showing the local growers that hey side by side.

[00:09:51] If you plant what you normally say this is the you'll just get just like on your farm but if you plant this new and improved version of the same crop then you would get this type of yield or this type of quality.

[00:10:04] So you can see that the incremental change in the cost to the farmer for the seed is well and truly worth the investment.

[00:10:14] The other thing I think that's important to note that over the last probably five maybe bit more years.

[00:10:20] In most countries in Africa it's significantly easier to get micro funding for quality seeds and other ag inputs in the past that wasn't always the case and certainly it's not always the case everywhere on the continent.

[00:10:32] But there that opportunity is growing and I expect will continue to grow.

[00:10:39] So would you say there are any specific challenges you face in promoting hybrid breeding or farming amongst the African agriculture community?

[00:10:51] Well I think the difficulties do center around change and we all know changes difficult.

[00:10:59] I know for me I you know I like to sit in certain places on the airplane you know on the aisle for example if I have to sit in the windows.

[00:11:07] I still get to my destination to find but for me it's awkward you know I don't like that change.

[00:11:11] But you know for growers that's really their source of livelihood and they're very aware of what they've been planting and so making a change to anything whether it's another variety or even a hybrid.

[00:11:23] You know they need to be truly convinced and I think showing the growers that there is value to making a change is probably the most central theme particularly at salenta that we we try to help the growers with.

[00:11:39] It's not about price in the end it's not about any of those things it's really about showing the growers that by making an investment in something different from what you have traditionally grown.

[00:11:52] There is a good return for you.

[00:11:56] As you mentioned to sell the change you have to demonstrate the benefits and value and know us a little bit you've been working to develop more pest and climate resistant specifically potatoes.

[00:12:09] So how do these innovations directly benefit small hold farmers in Africa?

[00:12:16] That's a great question, Tesser and it's fortunate in a way that just last week I was in Kenya at one of our demonstration plus that we used just for this.

[00:12:27] Let me tell you what I saw.

[00:12:28] We have several new hybrids of potatoes that we are testing in Kenya and the way we make these tests is we put two blocks one block of various of the let's say for your for hybrids where we.

[00:12:46] We fertilize irrigate and apply fungicide and another block where we fertilize and irrigate but we don't apply fungicide so why do we do that two reasons.

[00:12:58] Getting good at chemicals for the small holders in particular is very complicated normally they have access to fertilizer.

[00:13:09] They also have access to some level of irrigation it may be a very simple level like a bucket with water in it that they get from a host pipe or local stream but they normally do have some.

[00:13:22] And our newest varieties contain multiple genes of resistance to a disease called late blight which in potatoes is estimated to wipe out about 30% of the global crop annually and that can be a huge impact.

[00:13:38] And if blight comes to your field it can completely destroy your field in two weeks and then you have nothing and so we saw that as an opportunity to show.

[00:13:50] How hybrid breeding can have a direct impact particularly on small holders but on potato producers in general.

[00:13:57] In the example that we put in our demonstration in Kenya was spraying with the fungicide which would ensure that you didn't get late blight and not spraying now.

[00:14:09] In order to buy the spray it would cost a grow about 800 US dollars per hectare and that's a lot of money when you think about it right particularly for a small holder.

[00:14:21] And we let the crops go and if I look at the non sprayed side of the demonstration which is exactly well not exactly but more or less the way that many small holders will do their farm management.

[00:14:36] And our new hybrids were more than double the yield of the local preferred varieties and same time many of the potato growers that came were able to sample our potatoes you know as a mashed potato which is quite common in Kenya and they said they saw no difference in taste and for that matter kind of liked the color and texture of our potatoes a bit better.

[00:15:02] So I think that clearly shows that hybrid breeding can have an impact the next step of course is to work with the local regulators to make sure that we're allowed to sell these hybrids and that they get into the hands of the growers as quickly as possible.

[00:15:18] And this is not the first time we've seen this tesser. I mean this is the third consecutive season where we see very similar results with these varieties so we're quite keen to get these into the market and of course face those challenges that we talked about earlier demonstrating more broadly to the community base that there are other choices now.

[00:15:38] So I think from what you said it's clear that there are some innovations that are happening within the seed industry globally.

[00:15:49] So how do you see the role of the seed industry evolving particularly in Africa in the coming years?

[00:15:55] I think in Africa and look let's let's be clear Africa is a continent it's not a country so it's quite complicated.

[00:16:06] And there are parts of Africa where the seed companies evolution is really pushed and and the local governments, the people really want that innovation brought in.

[00:16:19] One of those places is Nigeria. Another place is in the spotlight to very different type of countries right not just environment.

[00:16:30] Also I would add Barundi, Barundi you know is a very small central African country but their president is quite keen on innovation in agriculture because he knows.

[00:16:42] More than 80% of the citizens in the country survive the agriculture and so in order to have this innovation.

[00:16:53] Really be spread across the continent I think there are a couple of things that are really important and one of those is that we harmonize the rules that are in place to allow seed to be moved from one country to another.

[00:17:09] So that means if if and I don't know let's take a maybe for example, you know you produce some some seed in a million and you know that that same variety of potato will work well in Barundi that given it's been produced in the media.

[00:17:30] And expected by the local regulators to be found free of diseases and pests that it can immediately be shifted to Barundi with limited issues and and you know then planted by growers so whatever the innovation to be can be used by those growers that need it in Barundi right now that's not in place.

[00:17:50] There are groups that are working on this type of thing.

[00:17:54] One is the African seed trade association which is a seed company and let's say associated company member organization where we work with local countries and we work with the African union the African union is also quite keen to facilitate movement of quality seed which allows for moving innovation across the company.

[00:18:18] But this this work has been going on for a long time. Of course progress has been made but it's very slow and when you consider the number of countries that are in Africa it will take even more time unfortunately that means that innovation is quite slow to go across the continent.

[00:18:37] And and the countries that are more innovative like the ones mentioned earlier.

[00:18:42] 10 to get those innovations into their countries much faster so I would hope that we can speed this process of harmonization and that certainly one of the reasons actually that that I continue to be so active in the African seed trade association and other groups as well.

[00:19:02] So how would you say these regulatory differences between countries in Africa impact the ability of companies like Salenta to bring their products to market.

[00:19:13] I'll give you a I think a good example.

[00:19:17] The Canyon government and the reason that we are so active in Kenya is very keen to bring innovation to its growers they understand that the climate in Kenya's changing dramatically now and that.

[00:19:32] And we have a new types of products are needed to cope with that.

[00:19:38] So Salenta came to the Canyon regulators and say hey we have a new type of breeding for potatoes and we have a way to speed up development which we think will support your growers.

[00:19:51] We would like to bring this product into your country and test it you know there there certainly was skepticism in the beginning and rightfully so because the role of the regulator is to protect the growers but also to protect the environment.

[00:20:05] So we were asked to tremendous amount of questions about the cleanliness of the seed and that we will not be bringing in a diseases if they don't currently have and how would we prove that.

[00:20:14] And of course we were happy to do those things because just like the regulators we don't want to harm the growers and we don't want to harm the environment.

[00:20:22] So we assured them that our seed which was produced in the Netherlands would be inspected by the regulators for whatever in fact the Canadians wanted it to be inspected and certified free from.

[00:20:33] And that process was a bit cumbersome but we did it because we it was we were obliged to quite frankly and of course we wanted to.

[00:20:42] For one year we were closely monitored by the regulators in Kenya they really checked and double checked if you will are a source of things and they saw that hey you know.

[00:20:54] Exactly what we asked for has been done the seed is clean the performances is good and from then on they were quite open to allow us.

[00:21:05] If we made the proper inspections and certifications to bring in very many new varieties of potatoes to test and it's been a very good working relationship with the regulators the Ministry of Ag and our by chain and Kenya quite frankly.

[00:21:22] But then there are other countries. Oh by the way, and Kenya now we've been allowed to commercialized three of these new varieties one of which has the resistance to late blight so again can you is leading the way here in terms of allowing innovation to this potato growers.

[00:21:38] But then there are other countries and look for give me but I don't necessarily want a name name here okay.

[00:21:45] With there are other countries that they're not as forward thinking and in many cases they have within their ministry of ag or another division within the government they have their own breeding.

[00:21:57] And and many of the employees of that particular group actually receive royalties or some form of payment for those particular varieties whether it's maize or sunflower or even potatoes.

[00:22:10] And so they see this innovation as a threat because it wasn't coming to them.

[00:22:16] Now look I understand that we all need to make a living but at the same time we all need our citizens if you will to eat and to have a better and more meaningful purpose in life.

[00:22:29] And if without innovation that's almost impossible to do and so these roadblocks are put in place.

[00:22:38] And this is what I mean by trade harmonization.

[00:22:40] If in fact groups like Kenya who are well respected in many parts of Africa have put the checks and balances in place to protect their growers their environment.

[00:22:51] I understand why other countries may not want to do the same but if they could do something similar it would certainly facilitate the movement of high quality seed around the continent and it would increase the speed of innovation to the growers.

[00:23:06] And in the end I think that's what everyone on the continent and the planet want and that's they want their growers to be productive profitable and to have a much higher level of food security.

[00:23:18] Would you say that the regulatory environment in Africa is actually keeping pace with the advancement that you're seeing agriculture technology and different input such as seeds.

[00:23:33] Yeah that's that's a really complicated question but I'm going to try to give you a very sorry for asking all these complicated questions to us.

[00:23:41] No, no I enjoy it you know pleasure to be here and have this discussion.

[00:23:45] So my very short answer to a very complex question is no the regulatory environment is not keeping pace with innovation.

[00:23:54] It's just that simple.

[00:23:56] We're living 20 to 40 years ago from a regulatory point of view there's limited understanding by the regulators of the new technology and the innovations and what they can do.

[00:24:07] And I would also add tester and I think this is very important it's not just Africa where this.

[00:24:14] Let's say this I'm lag is impacting it's many other countries that would surprise you including the European Union in many cases around the seed industry and innovation around seed.

[00:24:27] Many of the regions around the world are lagging behind and you know I don't have an answer for why they're lagging behind that may be your follow up question.

[00:24:37] My opinion and that's all it is is an opinion is that innovation is moving so quickly now that you know with the help of all the computer technology, artificial intelligence you name it.

[00:24:53] You know there's so many things we can do that the regulators simply can't comprehend that and they can't change quickly because it is a complicated thing to change regulation.

[00:25:05] Because you are obliged really to be the gatekeeper of safety and I think really it comes back to the seed industry as a whole needing to help the regulators and build the capacity understanding of what's going on in innovation.

[00:25:26] And and how that innovation can benefit the growers.

[00:25:31] And I like to think that within the African seed trade association we do a rather good job, I'm sure we can do a better job and there are similar organizations around the world in Europe and the Americas in Asia.

[00:25:45] And all of these organizations talk to each other they try to align so not only should we be talking about harmonization of regulation and easy movement of seed within Africa we should be talking about movement of seed around the world.

[00:26:01] And these most people don't know this but seed is produced globally and shipped globally.

[00:26:08] And it's done that way because of economics but also because of climate only certain areas are very good.

[00:26:17] You know climate zones for producing potato seeds for example right.

[00:26:22] But then those seeds can be easily transported from in our case the Netherlands to any spot on the planet.

[00:26:28] And for me this conversation while it is important to have it on let's say small regional areas it's also important to have it on a global scale.

[00:26:41] And the United Nations is actually trying to do that and facilitate that and it's a program that's only just starting but when I certainly applaud.

[00:26:50] And hopefully it gains traction and that will help bring these region organizations much closer together.

[00:26:58] Thank you for that chance.

[00:26:58] I guess every take a few steps back in terms of the initial question regarding the technology a big driver of this evolution that we are seeing is to optimize crop yields and also to provide food security.

[00:27:14] So what you believe is that seed industries roll and supporting or ensuring food security across the continent.

[00:27:25] Now I think the seed industry has a critical role to play here and and that role and and I think what the industry does very well tends to be lost in the overall length of the value chain of our food production systems.

[00:27:41] So think about a French fry as a.

[00:27:46] I think everybody on the planet loves French fries.

[00:27:50] You know in order to make a quality French fry you actually need very different genetics then you need to make a boil potato for example and I don't think your average consumer understands that.

[00:28:07] Now, not that they really need to quite frankly but all of what happens in the chain ultimately starts with the seed and that seed of course is built with genetic components.

[00:28:22] So if we want French fries that grow at our changing world which means perhaps you know big swings from hot and dry weather to flooding and and cool.

[00:28:37] And human weather where we used to have fairly stable climate if that mean that in itself means that we will see a different level of pests and in the crops.

[00:28:50] It also means with our changing population we're going to be forcing growers to to go to farther away places where land quality might be less and all of that creates a challenge for food security.

[00:29:05] And it changes the dynamic of where that food is grown and so the seed companies need to be quite on top of those changes and they need to be.

[00:29:16] Proactively developing new varieties that fit into those anticipated changes and and I think the industry does a very good job of that and it's completely.

[00:29:30] Not understood when you have an eye go down to the corner shops in orders and chips.

[00:29:38] And for me, I think the seed industry understands this very well.

[00:29:45] But of course we can always learn and do better.

[00:29:48] And I think one of the learnings that the industry has had over the last several years is that we need to take a more active role in discussions along further down the value chain.

[00:30:00] So we typically in the seed industry understand very well what growers need and that's where our research has been focused on for the last 50 years let's say okay.

[00:30:10] But going forward not only do we need to understand that we also need to understand what the processors need and what the consumers need because those things we can also have an impact on we've largely put that in the past.

[00:30:25] But now with the changing dynamics about the population increase of you know such movement into the cities and away from the farms expansion of these cities pushing away the local farms further away.

[00:30:40] Everything changes and the seed industry I think does realize that matter of fact we are working in.

[00:30:51] We still have to are working with the international seed Federation to truly start to understand the value chain of many of these crops and see how is an international group.

[00:31:05] We can start to have discussions to understand pain points and perhaps find solutions and I think through that we'll be able to come up with better products and we'll be able to also.

[00:31:18] Really help food security not just in the developed world but for sure in the developing world.

[00:31:24] You used the example of French fries and boy potatoes we know that potatoes are a staple crop in many regions under continent and globally.

[00:31:37] So maybe if you look at the word that you do us a little bit in terms of how do you ensure that African farmers have access to potatoes that can thrive in what we're seeing as increasingly unpredictable climates.

[00:31:52] Yeah, and that's also you know an example I can give you from our most recent trip to Kenya.

[00:32:00] Unfortunately this season in Kenya and more broadly in eastern Africa has been a very difficult season and just to characterize it briefly it started out with tremendously heavy rains and low temperatures.

[00:32:13] And that of course you know brings many problems if it rains at the wrong time the farmers field can be washed away and the crop can be completely lost perhaps there's time to plant perhaps not.

[00:32:26] It also in potatoes particularly that type of weather will bring late blight and unfortunately that's exactly what happened in Kenya this year the late blight came.

[00:32:38] And it completely wreaked havoc on the growers and the seed tuber producers and I think test or you understand very well that traditionally potatoes are grown with seed tubers or tubers that are saved from the previous crop.

[00:32:58] And with hybrid breeding we deliver our advanced genetics be a true seed or what we all know as seed you know and with major with the energy plant a seed in the new creative plant that's exactly how we deliver things so imagine you know now there is a lack of supply.

[00:33:16] of these saved seed tubers in Kenya and really the season still a month and a half away but there is no seed available so as slenta.

[00:33:28] What we are doing is working with distributors and of course we can't solve this problem it's a big problem okay, but we can have an impact so what we are doing is working with our distributor and we are getting seed into the country again remember these are very small seeds and just to give you a transparent example.

[00:33:45] 25 grams of our tree seed and plant an entire hectare where if you are using seed tubers you would need to pick up tripe full of seed tubers and so the logistics is much simpler.

[00:34:00] Now the potato grow or via our distributors will be able to go to a local agro vet so a local seed shop and purchase the sachet seed and so we go from a position where there are extreme limitations on access to seed for potatoes to at least there are incrementally more again I'm not saying we can solve the problem because we can't.

[00:34:23] But in the end there will be some seed available in the market and hopefully that will allow the growers to continue to grow potatoes.

[00:34:33] I guess one of the main barriers to access or access is sometimes dependent on collaboration and partnerships underground.

[00:34:44] I still into you have a interesting partnership with PepsiCo in Ethiopia.

[00:34:49] That's true that we have a relationship with PepsiCo in Ethiopia that's correct.

[00:34:53] So how do you believe partnerships such as this type of partnership improved the agriculture space within that locality?

[00:35:02] Yeah that's complex answer I think because partnerships are essential in agriculture partnerships on on the supply side but partnerships on the demand side as well.

[00:35:14] And the growers are in the middle and so what we need to do is optimize that value chain.

[00:35:20] That kind of goes to what I was saying earlier working with the International seed Federation.

[00:35:26] So in this particular case in Ethiopia to use a clear example by working Pepsi to produce crisps we can understand exactly what type of potato they need is there a certain sugar level that keeps the the crisps from going brown.

[00:35:43] And the nice golden color is there a certain size of tuber they prefer for their factory to increase their throughput and reduce waste.

[00:35:51] At the same time we can understand the growers what is the climate that they have, what access to chemicals and fertilizer and irrigation do they have.

[00:35:59] And that allows us to in a way design the best product for both sides of the equation the supply and the demand.

[00:36:09] That also helps get to a solution for both much faster which means hopefully not only will we see well if you want to call Chris food security at least it is food.

[00:36:19] You know then you can get to that point faster and you can also get to you know a sustainability goal faster from the growth point of view using the best practices for pest management and fertilization.

[00:36:34] I hope that answered your question it does it does so keeping on the theme of partnerships for a different type of partnership.

[00:36:42] I know you have collaborations with organic farmers in Kenya, Mozambique and Burundi.

[00:36:51] So what is the significance of this type of collaboration partnership?

[00:36:56] Yeah, you know this is one of the things that I really enjoy about my role.

[00:37:00] Because there is being able to find good partners and build those relationships and it of course it takes to build a partnership.

[00:37:09] And if we think about Burundi, I'll give you an example that we're working with a group in Burundi called ADPR.

[00:37:16] And ADPR is a group that produces seed tubers in Burundi and just like in Kenya, it has a staple crop there.

[00:37:25] And they have a very difficult time accessing clean starting material and the country.

[00:37:31] So what we've done is worked very closely with this particular group to basically the understand their needs, their environment, how does their production and marketing system work.

[00:37:44] And is there something we can do from a genetic point of view or even a regulatory point of view work together, we can have more impact.

[00:37:53] And we've landed on a way where we can use some of our hybrid that have high resistance light but also produce many, many tubers per plant.

[00:38:04] And what that does, you say wait a minute, why is that so important? What that does is it gives a resistance to one of the most difficult diseases for the Burundi and to control which is light light.

[00:38:15] And it gives this particular group the opportunity to produce a tremendous number of seed tubers which they can then sell tuber in the country.

[00:38:25] And since those are sold by the Kilo or even by the tuber in some cases, it really helps on on the front end of the production cycle.

[00:38:36] And then at the same time we're working with local offtakers so that they're aware of the variety, they understand the benefits and the uses.

[00:38:47] And that way the selling whether it's to, you know, the traditional side of the road market or even to some of the hotels and restaurants, they understand the characteristics of that particular potato.

[00:39:00] And this has been a very coordinated effort, not just with our partner ADPR but also with a development group called IFC and through working together we're able to have a dramatic impact that alone we wouldn't be able to do because each group has access to different parts along the value chain.

[00:39:22] And combining this we have a much bigger reach and impact.

[00:39:26] Interesting, interesting.

[00:39:28] During our conversation we spoke at length about the innovation and trends that you're seeing throughout the seed value and supply chain.

[00:39:39] So if we stick on the theme of trend or any current trends that you're seeing that you're really excited about.

[00:39:47] Well, I'm really excited about a couple of things.

[00:39:51] I'm really excited about the advanced months and artificial intelligence in genome mapping.

[00:39:57] Now those things you know they sound very divergent I guess but we understand the potato genome and the genome of many crops much much better now.

[00:40:08] And by that deep level of understanding we can start then to target exactly the type of products that are needed in very specific application.

[00:40:20] So it could be you know the high plateaus of Nigeria need a completely different type of variety than they do and the Nile Valley and Egypt for example, right?

[00:40:30] So we can start to really customize these varieties and by combining that genome mapping with artificial intelligence telling the models to bind the optimal combinations of genes.

[00:40:47] We can do a lot of the breeding and evaluation if you will in the cloud as opposed to actually planting it into the field.

[00:40:56] And doing field work is one of the very limiting factors to the seed industry.

[00:41:01] It's expensive, it takes people and it takes time and if we can very high level certainty eliminate some of that we can make these advancements much faster.

[00:41:13] And then I think the second thing that I'm quite interested in is the automation within the production system so that can be things like robots running through the field removing weeds with lasers.

[00:41:27] It's something that's being practiced in the vegetable and strawberry industry now in many parts of the developed world or drones flying over your field and mapping exactly where you have deficiencies in a crop for nitrogen uptake or other issues that need to be addressed by the growers.

[00:41:45] These things sound very science fiction but they're being applied today and they're not going to only stay in the developed world.

[00:41:55] They're already groups and Kenya for example using these drones and applying the technology there to improve grow re-yielding stability.

[00:42:03] So those two things I'm really excited about, I think they can have some dramatic change.

[00:42:09] But on a more functional level, I'm also excited that the seed industry and the food industry understand that there's a need to work together and that we can both have a big impact if we work together.

[00:42:20] For me, that's also, I don't know, exciting. And I really like that space as well.

[00:42:25] That's great.

[00:42:26] So if we move from trends and look to the future, what you believe will be Africa's major contributions in a global agricultural space in the next five to 10 years.

[00:42:39] Wow. That's a very thought-provoking question.

[00:42:44] I actually believe that even today, Africa is fully capable of providing all of its food security itself.

[00:42:55] Of course, infrastructure in many countries is a limiting factor and that means storage of the final goods and transport of the final goods.

[00:43:02] I do think what's going to happen in the next 20 years, let's say, is we're going to see a more coordinated approach across Africa.

[00:43:14] So hopefully the trade armization that I discussed will start to have a true impact and then we'll start to see companies really want to invest more in producing for the local population.

[00:43:27] But also to add value for crops that can be exported.

[00:43:32] And there are certain countries where you see that happening already.

[00:43:35] Kenya is a good example, also Nigeria and Senegal as well.

[00:43:39] But I think what you're going to see is that continued evolution to provide food internally.

[00:43:46] But also once that is more stabilized to then start to think about feeding your neighbors and feeding continents and populations further afield.

[00:43:58] All of those things in the end grow the overall economy and, you know, the water if you will, the entire ship.

[00:44:06] So I'm actually very optimistic but it's not going to be easy and it's going to take a long-term commitment.

[00:44:12] I agree 100%.

[00:44:15] If we look closer to home, I know you spend most of your life in the agriculture seed industry.

[00:44:22] Where did you see yourself in five years time?

[00:44:24] What work will you be doing to shape the future of agriculture, particularly in Africa?

[00:44:30] Well that's actually something I think about quite a lot.

[00:44:33] I'm 60 years old now and five years will be 65.

[00:44:35] But you know, as much as I enjoy what I do today, what I'd like to be doing in five years is training the next generation.

[00:44:48] And what limited things I have learned over my career about agriculture and about food legislation and agricultural trade helping them understand what is the case on the ground now.

[00:45:01] But also learning from them and by working together perhaps we can even get to a better result faster.

[00:45:09] So I really see myself transitioning from 100% focused of the boots on the ground to a sparring partner and continuing the work that I do boots on the ground, but in a different way.

[00:45:23] Amazing. Amazing. So leaving a legacy. That's what I like to hear.

[00:45:28] Oh thanks.

[00:45:30] What last question?

[00:45:31] It's a bit different to the rest of the questions.

[00:45:34] It's as people we often have quotes, mantras, proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good.

[00:45:41] Do you have one that you can share for us today?

[00:45:44] I do and it may take a couple of times to get this right, tesouro, so I apologize for that.

[00:45:48] No problem at all.

[00:45:50] I actually have let's say a little mantra that always is in the back of my head and it goes something like this, no matter where you go there you are.

[00:46:04] And what that means to me at least is that we will be put in many, many different situations throughout our life.

[00:46:12] But we can't hide from those situations because it's the situation we are in.

[00:46:17] And we need to deal with it.

[00:46:18] And I need to deal with it in a positive way, because a frustration anger, you name it, just it doesn't work.

[00:46:25] So for me, that's always been important. You know, I've woken up in some very strange places.

[00:46:29] I'm not going to say where but our member one trip in Central Africa.

[00:46:34] There are car rent out of gas. We had some other problems with transport and we were stuck in a very small village with no hotel.

[00:46:41] And there was a local church who was very willing to allow us to sleep on the floor in the church.

[00:46:48] And, uh, brilliant, a local there in the morning. I was a bit stiff and sore, but you know what that's where I was and it was happy to be there.

[00:46:56] Thank you for sharing that, Charles. It's been a beautiful and a very insightful conversation that we find today.

[00:47:02] Very niche, specific to seed innovation and technology.

[00:47:08] I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of our listeners and thank you for your time.

[00:47:14] It's been an absolutely pleasure having you on the podcast.

[00:47:17] No thanks for the invitation. I really enjoyed the exchange and I happy to do it any time pleasure.

[00:47:23] Brilliant and we will speak soon.

[00:47:26] Thanks so much.

[00:47:27] Take care.

[00:47:27] Bye bye.

[00:47:29] Thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast.

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[00:47:44] Thank you and see you next week for the unlocking Africa podcast.