Preparing for Tomorrow: Training the Next Generation of Africa-Focused International Trade Professionals with Marco Forgione

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast. There is any market that Africa or African nations can't develop a leading role in international trade. Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential. You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:55] Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find inspirational people who are doing inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential. Today we have Marco Forgione, who is the Director-General of the Institute of Export and International Trade, which is a professional

[00:01:15] membership body representing and supporting the interests of everyone involved in importing, exporting and international trade. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast, Marco. How are you? Terser, thank you. What a great introduction and I'm really well this early part of 2024. Brilliant. It's fantastic to have you on the podcast.

[00:01:40] Yeah, I've been looking forward to having a conversation with you, Terser, and trying to find a time when the possibility of the new normal in international trade arrived. And it would seem that's never going to happen. So I thought we'd better just leap into it.

[00:01:56] You took the words right out of my mouth. I don't think there's ever a normal when it comes to international trade that's always moving. So I always like to start from the beginning, so I was hoping you could introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about Marco.

[00:02:11] Sure. So I'm a geography graduate and started out my working life in Westminster, in the House of the Parliament. And from there, discovered a love for helping and supporting businesses. So I developed a career working in trade associations and membership bodies.

[00:02:32] Each of those has had a very different theme from landscape architects to live events companies, creative communication companies, most recently before this role with the antique dealers, fine and fine art dealers. And then into the Institute of Export and International

[00:02:50] Trade where I've been for four years now. And it's been fascinating. There is a golden thread, Terser, that connects all of my previous work experience in that every element of the organizations I worked for were actually involved in international trade, in selling their products or their services

[00:03:15] around the world. And I think I really got inspired to get more involved in international trade when I was at the Creative Industries Industry Association that I was chief executive of, where for the first time I was directly involved in helping and supporting UK businesses to grow

[00:03:38] their engagement internationally. And in fact, was part of winning the first and today only propaganda film to be commissioned by an arm of the Chinese government from a UK based creative industry. Amazing, amazing. So you mentioned you're a geography graduate and you've had a

[00:03:58] dynamic and varied career across a range of industries which had a common thread of international trade. I guess has led you to the current role as director general at the Institute of Export and

[00:04:11] International Trade. So I was wondering if you could give us a bit more information specifically on that role in terms of what does the role actually involved at the Institute? As we started, there is no normal expectation to anything with international trade. So this

[00:04:30] shoot is a not-for-profit independent organization established in 1935 with the express objective of enhancing global international trade. And we do that through qualifications, so formal qualifications from level two entry level to level seven masters degree level. We provide

[00:04:50] consultancy, we provide short courses, we provide training in-house and public training. And we help engage with policymakers and regulators to establish an environment whereby healthy compliant international trade can take place. And we do this and we're a mission to us

[00:05:14] and I feel very passionate about this. We are an mission to help and support more businesses, wherever they are, to reap the benefits of international trade because all the research shows that businesses which trade internationally are more sustainable, more resilient, they

[00:05:30] employ more people, they are more innovative and most importantly are more profitable. And so if we're looking at how do we deal with some of the most significant challenges humanity faces, whether that's health inequality or exclusion from education

[00:05:44] or economic exclusion, the only way we're going to do that is by nation trading with nation, by businesses trading with businesses wherever they are. And we live in a global marketplace. So our role, the issue of export international trade is to provide the knowledge, the skills

[00:06:00] to hold the hands of businesses and entrepreneurs so that they can reap those incredible benefits of being involved in international trade and growing their global footprint. Fantastic. So you kind of mentioned that the Institute represents and supports the interests

[00:06:17] of businesses involved in international trade as this is the Unlocking Africa podcast and the Institute is UK headquartered. How do you perceive the current opportunities for businesses in the UK with regards to trade in Africa? I think there are huge opportunities for UK

[00:06:35] businesses to trade with the nations in Africa. But I think it's just more important for me, this is something I feel passionately about, is the opportunity for African based businesses to grow their trade internationally and be that trading pan African as well as

[00:06:53] trading internationally beyond the borders of the African continent. And our role as you've highlighted is to support international trade. We are UK headquartered, but we are not a UK focus. We are internationally focused. We have an office in Kenya. We're currently

[00:07:14] delivering projects in Ghana, Nigeria and Kenya. We collaborate with the international trade centres, which is part of the WTO on a pan African qualification around international trade and customs. So our objective is to ensure that businesses, whatever size,

[00:07:36] whatever scale, wherever they're located have the means, the capability, the tools to trade cross borders. And the biggest opportunity is for pan Africa for that trade across Africa and then for those businesses to trade across borders internationally.

[00:07:54] You mentioned that you're seeing more opportunities and interest for African businesses to trade internationally and pan African. So you have offices in Kenya and Nigeria offering the suite of courses that you provide. So are you seeing an increased interest in terms of the

[00:08:13] discipline of international trade in those markets? Yes, we are. And at a number of levels, there are the businesses themselves that are maturing and moving from being a micro business to a small or medium enterprise. And they're definitely looking at cross border trade,

[00:08:33] but we're not leaving it to chance. So we collaborate with the World Trade Organization, the WTO on two particular initiatives. One is called the MSME program, which is Micro Small Medium Enterprise Programme whereby we provide our knowledge and expertise to support

[00:08:49] those startup entrepreneurs in the developing, lesser developed countries to understand how they can exploit the benefits and reap the benefits of international trade. We also support the She Trades Initiative, which is specifically targeting female entrepreneurs, female led

[00:09:07] businesses around the world to encourage them to engage in international trade. When you look at the profile of small businesses in Africa particularly, you see that there are a large number that have female leads and they face a number of additional challenges and hurdles to engaging

[00:09:27] in international trade. So we are looking to break down those barriers and to ensure that every business wherever they're located, whoever leads them can benefit from international trade. So considering your interest in the Institute's role in boosting bilateral and equitable trade,

[00:09:46] what strategies do you believe can be employed to enhance trade relationships between say the UK and different African nations? I think one of the biggest challenges for access to EU or American marketplaces for African led businesses is understanding the standards requirements

[00:10:11] for the trade. So I think as a priority level, what the EU, what the UK, what America needs to do is to support businesses to go through the process of establishing and embedding standards and quality

[00:10:29] into the products and make sure that they can then trade seamlessly into those marketplaces. Because there's huge potential to grow that trade out of Africa into the Europe, UK and America. And one of the blockers is not necessarily even about understanding the customs

[00:10:50] processes, procedures or the forms that are required or the issues of compliance. The point that needs to be addressed is the standards and making sure that the products, the goods that have been manufactured meet the import requirements of those nations. And investment there would

[00:11:12] really make a huge difference, which is why we work so hard in Africa with the support of Affrex and Bank and others to help educate the business leaders in Africa over how they can meet those standards and regulatory requirements. Fantastic. So you've discussed promoting best

[00:11:36] practices and increasing standards and knowledge when it comes to trade. So if we look at trade specifically within the continent in terms of the African continental free trade area agreement, what impact do you believe this agreement will have in terms of the trade dynamics and business

[00:11:56] practices, particularly for UK companies who are looking to trade within the continent? I think it will have tremendous benefit for UK business because it gives you access to the whole of Africa on a clear access to the continental free trade area. So that simplifies trade from the

[00:12:16] UK into Africa. But what it also does is act as a spark to grow that intra-Africa trade, which is going to be key to the growth and development of the African nations. That trade

[00:12:30] across borders in Africa, growing that as a priority has to be a key aspiration of the AFCFTA. And you can see not only through the agreements with regards to customs facilitation between the nations, but also free movement of people, which is essential for the development

[00:12:51] and growth of trade and services is going to be key to Africa. What all of that agreement, all those agreements do, or that a positive move does is to make African nations much more attractive

[00:13:03] for foreign direct investment. Because by investing say in Ghana or Kenya or DRC, you have the potential then to access the whole of Africa and that is hugely appealing. With that in mind, are there any specific initiatives or programs that the Institute

[00:13:21] has in place to equip its members with the skills and knowledge that is required to capitalise on the opportunities presented by the free trade area? We do a huge amount of engagement, both with our seven and a half thousand members and our

[00:13:36] much wider community of tens of thousands of businesses with whom we collaborate on a regular basis. We run webinars, we have training programs. We also use the incredible insight knowledge of our teams who are based in Africa and our collaborations with organisations like

[00:13:53] the ITC, our friends in bank, the FCFTA, Secretariat. And indeed in a couple of weeks time I'm off to Accra in Ghana to hold the next session of our engagement in their activities in West Africa and also to meet with leaders in international trade and Pan-African trade

[00:14:17] in Africa. So we look to use the knowledge and expertise, right? Practical knowledge and expertise of our team of experts over 180 people who are members of the who work for the Institute are collaborations with key partners to act as evangelists for the benefits of trade with

[00:14:37] Africa. So I guess it's clear that the Institute has an increasing interest in Africa from your day to day work and what you see going forward. What value do you believe the Institute can add to businesses that are seeking to engage with African markets and economies?

[00:14:56] Tess, I just said to say that you do a huge amount of work in Africa. Thank you. You are absolutely a leader in promoting the benefits and encouraging trade with Africa. And I'm really delighted to be able to spend time with you and to highlight further endorse

[00:15:15] your view that trade with Africa has the potential to reap huge benefits both for the communities, the nations of Africa but also for UK businesses. So what we are at the Institute is an independent non-aligned supporter of international trade. So our role, I see our role

[00:15:39] very clearly, is to encourage businesses to trade across borders, to encourage UK businesses trade with Africa and indeed to support and encourage African businesses to trade with the UK and elsewhere to ensure that they're able to do so complying in a healthy manner by

[00:15:59] establishing the standards, guiding on the customs and the regulatory environment, supporting with understanding the nuances of global supply chains and integrated logistics. So we act to provide knowledge and expertise, guidance and support for businesses to trade.

[00:16:22] Fantastic. So if we look away from the opposite side, what value do you believe your work can add or is adding to the African markets and economies that your members are trading with?

[00:16:35] We are a force multiplier. So we encourage and support businesses to trade and we provide as a UK based independent organisation, we actually also put not just our knowledge and expertise but our funds to help and support and grow that international trade. As I said,

[00:16:59] with the WTO or Trade Organisation with the She Trades Initiative and the MSME program, which are very much focused on supporting those early stage businesses, we provide that knowledge and expertise in collaboration with the ITC and we are more now directly active

[00:17:18] in helping shape the regulatory and the policy framework for healthy global trade in and with Africa. Fantastic. Given I guess the geopolitical and trading shifts that we have discussed today, what advice would you give to businesses so they can I guess adequately

[00:17:40] prepare for the changing landscape and trading dynamics that we are seeing on the continent? What we are actually seeing is a global reshaping of supply chains at a time of tectonic shifts in geopolitical alliances and allegiances. We had the European century,

[00:18:06] we have had the American century, we are living through the Asian century and the next one will definitely be the African century. If you look at the economic profile, the social profile across Africa, the next huge growth opportunity globally is Africa. We haven't even begun to see the

[00:18:31] potential of Africa really being realised and I think that transformation is going to be turbo boosted by what's currently happening because of the geographical location of Africa. It acts as a bridge between the Americas, between Europe and between Asia and therefore

[00:18:56] should be the conduit through which trade flows and that provides huge opportunity and potential when you add in the wealth of natural resources that exist in Africa and on top of that, the wealth of talent and ability and entrepreneurial flair that exists in Africa.

[00:19:19] The transformation, the potential of Africa hasn't even begun to be realised and it's usually exciting for me as Director General of the Institute of Export and International Trade to really see what is happening, the transformation happening where African nations,

[00:19:37] African businesses are world leaders in that transformation. If you look what is happening with MPSA with regards to mobile payments, the transformational e-commerce is taking place, the incredible productivity of the manufacturing and the agricultural sector as well as the

[00:19:59] critical mineral sector. Everything indicates to me that Africa is going to be not just a part of the reinvigoration of the global economy, it is going to be the engine room driving forward

[00:20:15] the future of the global economy. So in your opinion what do you believe will define the success of the Africa century? I think the century we're going into is going to be very different to anyone we've been through before and that is technologically driven.

[00:20:33] We are more connected than we've ever been and that is only going to increase. That move straight to mobile which has benefited African nations gives a huge technical advantage. The fact that you've got growing populations, a growing middle class, very young profile

[00:20:52] to societies, communities across Africa. The diversity that exists in Africa sets Africa very much a part from the other centuries. The US very much a homogeneous group, Europe very much homogeneous, the Chinese century very much homogeneous but you've got tremendous

[00:21:14] diversity and that sparks entrepreneurialism, that sparks creativity and that I think combined with the technological advances that have taken place. I mean the century we're going into will be really very different from what has been before. Brilliant, so you mentioned that the

[00:21:32] Africa century will be technology driven. I guess with that in mind what specific measures would you propose for businesses to establish a strong network or relationships within specific African markets? People do business with people just the only way

[00:21:51] this really happens is you have to get over to Africa, meet, understand the cultures, the nuances, the way in which business is done. I've been very fortunate to have been able to

[00:22:08] spend time in Rwanda, in Kenya, I'm off to Ghana as I've said and even from those conversations Africa is different to each nation is different from the other but there is a great cohesion

[00:22:26] to Africa and I think that what the Secretary is doing is brilliant, the way in which the African nations have come together at a driving that forward. Moving that the initiative of the continental free trade area forward at pace is going to be important but making sure that

[00:22:44] is done in a way that supports, encourages and enhances trade facilitation, ease of doing business. As you mentioned you've travelled extensively throughout Africa within your realm. Are there any misconceptions that you had about Africa before joining that have been dispelled

[00:23:05] during your time with the Institute and working quite closely within the continent and travelling quite wide? I'm rather fortunate as you can guess from my name that I don't have a UK heritage, my heritage is Italian and actually Danish so my mother is half Danish, my father is

[00:23:25] Italian and when I was younger I was fortunate to do quite a bit of travelling separately. I didn't go to Africa but I travelled separately so I didn't have not gone to my visits and journeys

[00:23:42] in Africa with any real preconception other than a commitment to be open-minded and to embrace the culture, the opportunities that exist in Africa. So I've really enjoyed my visits, I didn't really have any particular preconceived senses of what they were going to be like other

[00:24:04] than the visits I've been on have been very different but each of them truly brilliant. Fantastic, I guess during your visit are there any countries or markets which have stood out where you see huge potential in terms of international trade opportunities?

[00:24:22] In Africa I think every nation in Africa has huge potential and opportunity both to benefit from intra-African trade but also to grow their international trade and whether that's from agriculture, whether that's minerals, extractive industries, whether that is the

[00:24:41] development of services or technological products and services. I don't think that there is any market that Africa or African nations can't develop a leading role in international trade. It is a rare wealth of natural resources, of opportunity potential and indeed from human

[00:25:08] capital. The quality of the entrepreneurship that exists in Africa is exceptional you know whether that's the development or exploitation of critical minerals that support the transition to net zero and the green economy. I was with the High Commissioner for Namibia recently who is

[00:25:31] talking to me about the green hydrogen projects that they have in Namibia. Now these are world-leading opportunities and the very cutting edge of industrial processes so Africa has nothing to fear from the future and everything to embrace.

[00:25:49] I guess sticking to what you do and your day-to-day role, I love your work involves collaborating with governments and other stakeholders so we know we're coming towards upcoming elections in the

[00:26:03] UK and globally. So with the work that you do with the institutes how are you planning to collaborate with governments and stakeholders to ensure the interests of businesses that are involved in international trade especially within Africa? Yeah so we are strenuously non-political or

[00:26:23] partisan so our work with politicians is to ensure that in their role as policymakers they understand the importance of healthy compliant international trade and the reforms required to ensure that they inspire and encourage businesses to trade internationally. We work

[00:26:43] with regulators to ensure that the landscape for international trade, the processes and procedures are as simplified as possible as facilitated as possible and work to encourage and inform businesses around how they can comply with the requirements and then trade effectively

[00:27:06] and complying. You mentioned that there are a lot of elections including in the UK for this year. I think somewhere between 50 and 60 percent of the global population will go to the polls this year

[00:27:18] and the elections have already started and will run throughout the course of this year so we stand at a point of genuine shift and change in global politics and that's happening at a time

[00:27:34] when the two largest economies the US and China are consciously going through a program of both try to decouple then trying to recouple and then decouple again and that is that is destabilizing to the global economy when you've got the number of elections taking place

[00:27:54] that is in itself as a factor of destabilization to global trade routes because what business wants, business needs and stability, certainty over what the rules of engagement are going to be. So this year unlike any other is going to be one of uncertainty impossible destabilization

[00:28:16] when you look particularly with what's happening in the Middle East currently then in itself is having an impact on global supply chains. So I think the only thing we would can say with

[00:28:26] certainty to us sir is that this year is going to be an uncertainty. I agree, I agree. So going back to something that you mentioned earlier on you mentioned obviously the suite of qualification and training offered by the Institute how do you believe these resources can contribute to

[00:28:44] preparing people for the changing dynamics and uncertainty that we are seeing in international trade. Knowing the rules and regulations is more important now than ever because at a point where supply chains are disrupted and we're seeing that when supply chains are going through a process

[00:29:02] of reshaping which is as a result of what happened during COVID and when there are disruptions that are either environmental or political which we're seeing now to global supply chains making sure that you know how to trade and what the requirements are is more essential than ever

[00:29:23] because the last thing you want is to create a delay or a problem for yourself by accident. So that understanding how to trade is really important and none of this is massively difficult

[00:29:39] and I want people to be put off thinking that there's a huge a mass of bureaucracy complexity to international trade. There are things you need to do in order to trade compliantly and healthily

[00:29:50] but once you know what they are it's quite simple just to comply but make sure you know what the rules are before you start and as well as you know the the election stream spoken about

[00:30:03] the disruption to global supply chains we've also got new rules and regulations coming in so the EU for instance with its carbon border adjustment mechanism and the deforestation rules and regulations the anti-slavery and anti-force labour requirements and reporting all of these

[00:30:19] are additional areas of compliance that you need to understand. Don't be put off by them you need to understand what they are you need to understand what that means for you as a business

[00:30:28] and how you need to respond to it and then once you've got that knowledge and expertise you'll be able to trade without fear or favour and our role the issue of export international

[00:30:38] trade is to make sure that you as business leaders and your teams know how to comply understand what the rules are and therefore are able to take advantage of that global trade and if you do and competitors don't that gives you a huge advantage.

[00:30:55] So with the changes in global international trade we are seeing a change in requirements for international trade professionals for people who are looking to enter the industry any advice or tips in terms of how to position themselves professionally what should they be looking out

[00:31:11] for what should they be reading what content should they be consuming. Well I would always direct people to export.org.uk as a priority we provide a huge amount of resources free to access that give insight and information you can sign up for our daily bulletin in our

[00:31:33] weekly roundup which provides insight and information of course I would encourage anyone who's interested in international trade to study to get the qualification to access the training because having a professional qualification international trade sets you

[00:31:51] on a fast track to not just a really rewarding career but to a high value long term internationally recognized qualification in the most amazing sector that there is. So getting the qualifications in international trade means that you are not only building your

[00:32:14] career potential but you are also helping businesses in your community and internationally to grow their businesses and to support their teams and their communities. There could be no more rewarding career I don't believe than international trade as I look back over the

[00:32:31] work that I've done over the last 30 years or so it's clear that I was always going to end up working in international trade because it meets all of my professional and also personal objectives about trying to encourage and support individual development community growth

[00:32:54] and enhancement through international trade and the benefits as we've said of businesses which trade cross borders being more sustainable more resilient more innovative employing more people and being more profitable. I agree because I completed the level five diploma

[00:33:10] through the institute last year. Brilliant as you know we hold an international graduation event at Mansion House in the city of London where we celebrate the successes of all our graduates and students and that is a truly international event and those who can't make it

[00:33:32] we certainly made sure that they receive their certificates and it's brilliant at the issue. We've got a network a community of tens if not hundreds of thousands of graduates around the world who have studied with the institute and built their careers based on the qualifications of

[00:33:51] training the knowledge the insights that have been garnered by collaborating with us and we learned from our graduates as well. Fantastic so in order to deliver industry leading qualifications and training it's important to be on top of current trends so what's

[00:34:08] some of the positive trends that you're seeing in the work that you're doing with regards to international trade between Africa and the rest of the world. So I think the key things are the growing appreciation of the requirement and the approach of trade facilitation so on behalf of

[00:34:24] the UK government we ran a digital trade corridor pilot to show the benefits of digitisation of trade processes so we collaborated with tea farmers coffee growers and the horticultural flower growers in Kenya to use a trusted trader program certification program

[00:34:46] and a digital trade link between the Kenya single trade window and the UK systems and we carried out that project moving tea coffee cut flowers between Kenya and the UK and the analysis by the UK government cabinet office showed that we increased resilience we increase

[00:35:09] the speed of the trade and most importantly we significantly increased the profitability of the trade for the businesses in Kenya trading with the UK and the more we can do to give visibility of supply chain data helps grow profitability for businesses in Africa

[00:35:30] which supports UK businesses because it lowers the cost of the trade but also so it gives a potential most importantly I think this is a really important point most importantly this gives the possibility to move value the value chain to Africa so that

[00:35:48] you bring processing closer to the home market in Africa so that you're selling value add good rather than just commodity that's great to hear so if we move from current trends that you're seeing

[00:36:01] into the future the future of Africa where do you see african five years time with regards to its position in global trade well I think global trade is is going to be challenging for the

[00:36:13] next few years so I think the WTO and WTO and others suggest we're going to see a global slowdown in trade but for Africa I think it has the potential to buck the trend and I think we could see

[00:36:28] a significant increase both in trade intra-africa which is really important as we've discussed already but also that trade with Africa so I think that as a continental area we could see Africa bucking the global trend on trade where do you see yourself and the institutes of exports

[00:36:50] in international trade in five years time you know what role will you be playing with regards to international trade within Africa my ambition actually tells us which may be slightly hard is that we reach a point where the Institute of Export and International Trade

[00:37:08] is not required because we have a globally empowered knowledgeable insightful community of businesses policymakers and regulators who understand the importance of a trade facilitation and healthy compliant international trade I think we're a long way from achieving that

[00:37:25] however it tells us so so as we head today towards our 90th anniversary next year I'm keen for the Institute to continue to deliver on our mission and to continue to play a role at a community, a regional, a national, a continental and a global level

[00:37:50] supporting encouraging evangelizing for the benefits of international trade and providing the tools and knowledge and expertise to ensure that every business has the potential to access international markets fantastic fantastic we're almost at the end Marco so this is the last

[00:38:08] question it's a bit different to the rest as people we often have quote mantras proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good do you have one

[00:38:20] that you can share with us today I have a couple one you've heard me repeat a couple of times about the benefits of international trade for businesses and the other one and my team I think

[00:38:34] get quite frustrated because it's it's it's a sense that keeping going is so important the statement I use is that if it was easy it wouldn't be fun and it's facing to the challenges

[00:38:53] an overcoming challenge which is what really feeds the spirit I like that one thank you for sharing that Marco as we're coming to the close of today's conversation it's been a fantastic conversation I was wondering if you had any closing remarks find a course to action for

[00:39:10] people who are interested in the work that you're doing at the institute or just interested in international trade in general so absolutely visit export.org.uk follow us on our social media where you'll get regular updates and insights into what's happening but so I actually want to

[00:39:27] thank you because you have been a real standard bearer for Africa and for UK and Africa trade and the benefits of that healthy engagement and I'm just really pleased to have the opportunity

[00:39:42] to sit down and have a chat with you as you say promise for a while we finally managed and I think that you know the role that you play here not just with this podcast

[00:39:55] but more generally is really important and people like you Tersa we need more evangelizing for global trade and particularly for the potential for Africa in that pantheon of global international trade fantastic thank you Marco I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today as an

[00:40:15] international trade professional it's been great discussing all things UK Africa trade and Africa trade in general so brilliant I'm glad we've had this conversation today and I look forward to more conversations in the future brilliant thanks Tersa take care Marco we will speak soon

[00:40:32] brilliant bye bye thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast if you've enjoyed this episode please subscribe share or tell a friend about it you can also

[00:40:44] rate review us in apple podcast or wherever you download your podcast thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast