Innovating Healthcare in Africa: The Journey to Building Smart Clinics Across Africa With Isidore Kpotufe

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast.

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: My first company was a fintech company in Ghana. It was a price comparison marketplace for financial services, so comparing financial services like loans, investments, all of that.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So you will find that many people would bypass community clinics to go to hospitals to treat conditions as basic as infections.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you will find that many clinics in these communities are empty.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I'm very proud of is the most is our team.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: The ability of our team to have 10 clinics within a span of nine months is tremendous.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is really what we need, quality, talent to tackle the problem.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Unlocking Africa Podcast, where we find inspirational people who are doing inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Today, we have Isidore Kpotufe, who is founder of Rivier, a network of smart clinics offering a wow experience to patients for in-person and virtual care.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Rivier uses technology to offer personalized care, create convenience and broaden primary care access in Africa, starting from Ghana.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast, Isidore. How are you?

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, Terser. I'm very great. How are you too?

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very well. Thank you. Thank you. So how's your day been?

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's been really busy. We are just getting off with a new program.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We are sending field nurses to the market to provide care of vital checks to informal workers.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very interesting program that I'm very bullish about, you know.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's what I've been doing.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant. And hopefully we'll hear more about that new project during our conversation today.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But before we get started, I was hoping you could tell us a bit more about Isidore Kpotufe.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, briefly speaking, I am a three-time founder.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: My first company was a fintech company in Ghana.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a price comparison marketplace for financial services.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So comparing financial services like loans, investment, all of that.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: This was started after I exited my job as direct self-communications of a policy think tank in Ghana in 2016.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we set up this company in 2017 and we managed to exit it.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, what we did was to sell the software assets to a local microfinance institution.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we used that money to start another company called Starburst.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started Starburst in 2019.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That was also, you know, during the pandemic.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very interesting moment for me because I was learning to manage a business in crisis.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: In a crisis, a crisis that you had no control over, you know, it was a global crisis and you were simply expected to operate within the crisis.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was an interesting period for us.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But we managed to innovate and then sustain the business.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So Starburst was referred to as the Uber for buses by our users.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: What we were doing was that we allowed commuters to book seats on private buses that were supplied by individuals.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So these buses were different from the commercial buses that you would typically find on our streets, on our roads in Ghana and in most part of Africa.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And the experience was better compared to these commercial buses.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And we picked up very quickly and some businesses were also interested in getting these buses for the employees.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how we actually managed to sustain the business during the pandemic.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And then in 2021, one of our competitors in Nigeria came knocking.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were talking.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I was in touch with the founder for a while.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been chatting and we established a personal rapport.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point they wanted to enter Ghana.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to expand to Ghana from Nigeria.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's Onyeka.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Onyeka is the founder of the company in question, which is Trips.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, at the time, it was even Plenty Waka.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and then when they were going to lunch in Ghana, you know, they then changed the name from Plenty Waka to Trips.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: To embody a continental approach to the expansion.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I stayed with Trips for a while after the acquisition.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I led the Ghana operation.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I also then, you know, rose up to lead global operations for Trips.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, in between, I've been doing other things, supporting small businesses, advising other entrepreneurs as well, doing some investment here and there.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: That's just me.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So even my first company was out of an experience.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The second company was out of an experience.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the times were very tough that we had to also resort to using public transport.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to resort to using public transport at some point.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't like the experience at the time.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I decided to, you know, create a company to address that issue because I know that the other people out there would not like or would not appreciate the public transport or the informal public transport experience.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So Revia is not different at all.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Last year, I went to the clinic to treat my ear infection.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I got to the clinic, I was very disappointed in what I saw.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It was around 7 p.m.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And because I was so much in pain, I didn't want to leave that clinic I visited.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So I went in for the care, for the treatment.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The doctor was very charming, was very nice to me, although what I had seen was not so encouraging in terms of physical infrastructure, in terms of environment.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wasn't so impressed with that.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But the doctor who took care of me was very good.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that singular experience marked me.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I typically would not visit the, I haven't, I'm not the frequent user of healthcare services, you know.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But that day, it then, that experience marked me.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I decided out of curiosity to visit other primary care facilities in different parts of Accra.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Then I realized that many of these clinics were not particularly designed to attract people, you know, to attract people who had money to pay for quality healthcare services.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So you'll find that many people would bypass community clinics to go to hospitals to treat conditions as basic as infections, right?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you'll find that many clinics in these communities are empty.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have people, you know, they don't have clients because they are not able to project confidence, you know.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then so because they are not able to project confidence, they are not able to attract patients as well.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you go to the hospitals, patients are not particularly happy with the experience, even at the hospital.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You go there, you experience long wait times.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The environment is not particularly catchy and friendly.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the experience is not, you know, user-centered.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And so all of these, all of these events led to the founding of Revia to address all of these things that, you know, I just talked about the long wait times, the bad infrastructure, the lack of personalized experience in healthcare.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You've shared the personal experience and also the curiosity that sparked the idea or inspiration for Revia.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So if we look underneath all of that, what would you say is the core mission of Revia?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Our mission is to build the network or is to offer what we call the wow experience to patients, regardless of your social class, regardless of your economic status.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe that a wow experience, which I will be defining later on, is within reach and within the right of every person who requires healthcare, you know, anywhere in the world.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what that means is that, and I'll break it down.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what that means in the Revia setting is that the wow stands for different things.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The first W stands for warm and welcoming environment or experience.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you walk into any provider, any Revia provider, you ought to be welcomed.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You ought to feel welcome.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have been to many facilities and I walk into the facility and the person at the reception desk doesn't get up to even welcome me.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just disappointing.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not acceptable.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And so even providers don't make time, you know, to offer these welcoming experience to the patients.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that is the first.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe that every single person deserves this welcoming experience regardless of their socioeconomic status.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That is what the first W stands for.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: The second letter, which is the O in the wow, stands for open communication.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I have spoken to patients.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I have interacted with patients who are so amazed at how our doctors and our care providers take their time to explain every single detail on their medical report.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: To answer all the questions they have.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe this open communication is missing in care delivery.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And this has contributed to the lack of trust that the patients or many patients, every patient has today of Africa's health care system.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: The last letter, which is the other W stands for world class medical care.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, regardless of your socioeconomic status, you deserve, you know, quality care.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to bring about systemic change using this wow, you know, experience that we are offering.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So at some point for me, my personal fulfillment would be that when someone speaks of a bad experience in Ghana at the facility, at the healthcare facility, perhaps they are speaking to someone who has experienced a wow experience, you know, at the Arabia Clinic.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then says to the person that no, healthcare is getting better in Ghana.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to the work that Rivia is doing.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And with these, with stories like this, we can change the perception that people have of Africa's healthcare or half of, you know, Ghana's healthcare.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are really about systemic impact.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Systemic, it's a systemic mission for us.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It really goes beyond, you know, Rivia as a company.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But you've touched on a key point there in terms of you want to create systemic change.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: To create systemic change, you more or less have to build an ecosystem that never existed before.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So would you say this is something that you're trying to establish or create an ecosystem that has never existed before in the primary care space in Ghana or Africa as a whole?

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's really, it's a very challenging mission that we've taken on because like you rightly noted, we are having to build an ecosystem.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, for the audience, let me just explain what that means.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, to deliver quality care, an effective healthcare system requires a different component.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So you require the people, you know, delivering the cares of the caregivers.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The caregivers are both non-clinical caregivers.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So non, you know, non-medics and then medics.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You require that, the people.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You require effective protocols.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you deliver care?

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The protocol is required to deliver the care.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You require that as well.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You require the right infrastructure from the physical building to the equipment.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you require the financing.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You require the technology.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: All of these constitutes the ecosystem.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: What is happening is that we are having to build this from the ground up.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we didn't want to take the approach of having to build another platform or another technology.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The question I tell people all the time, or what I say to people all the time is that if you connect me to a doctor outside or through a telemedicine platform,

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and the condition requires an in-person examination, and then I go to the facility,

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and my experience at the facility is very terrible that it puts me in my life in danger.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Has the work been done?

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If you ask me, no, it hasn't been done.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So we need other players.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I tell my colleagues all the time.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I encourage everyone in the space to think about their work from a systemic, from an ecosystem perspective.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what Revia is doing today is that we would go to existing clinics,

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and these are clinics that already have the infrastructure.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They're already providing care, you know, as usual.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But what we would do is that we would offer to the clinic to upgrade their facility.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the facility would appear different.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It would appear brand new.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It would appear very aesthetically, you know, pleasing.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: The environment, the furniture, everything is upgraded.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we would offer them to upgrade their technology as well.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So this would include deploying our proprietary healthcare management software,

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: which we call the Revia OS.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: This could also include, you know, getting laptops for the clinics or for the facility.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: If the facility is not digitized already.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing would be to train the people to upgrade their competency.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end of the day, we would offer the clinic a set of guidelines or protocols to work with.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we would brand or rebrand the facility to conform with a uniform or the same branding guideline

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that all the clinics within the Revia network must abide or must go by.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you realize, if you didn't pay attention, you will see that we are tackling different problems.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We are tackling the infrastructure problem.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We are tackling the technology problem.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We are tackling the skills and competency issue.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We are tackling, you know, financial problems as well.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and this is really tough.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But I believe that this is an approach that would bring about the systemic impact that we require.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The question I get all the time is that, look, how is this scalable?

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you really scale with this approach?

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of my next questions.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we go back to the wow model, which, as you mentioned, it focuses on warmth, open communication and world-class care.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've also given us an insight into how you're building the ecosystem.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess my question is, how do you ensure that this culture that you're creating is consistently maintained across the whole ecosystem and individual clinics?

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how is this culture maintained?

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one of the lessons I've picked as an entrepreneur from my first company to even the previous places I've worked and to other companies that I've seen and succeeding is the importance of culture.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What I've also noticed is that in this part of the world, culture is paid lip service to.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: People really don't understand the importance of culture.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no mechanism to encourage culture and to build culture.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the challenges that we've had to face.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even say that we have solved the problem of culture completely, you know, within the Rivian network.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's still an ongoing process.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it will continue to be an ongoing process as long as the company exists.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And we continue to do business with all these clinics.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But the way we address this is that before any facility joins the clinic or the network, a training is provided to them.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: This training is called the Rivian Standard Workshop Orientation.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And it takes the clinic through the different guidelines that Rivian has put in place to help them do better as a business.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And don't forget that even Rivian's intervention or participation in the clinic allows the clinic to even do better.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That is really our thesis.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Once you do, once Rivian gets involved into a clinic, you know, the clinic does better.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And this ecosystem is, you know, is sustainable that way.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we take them through these guidelines, which are meant to position them better.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after the guideline, we train the people over there.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So the people we take through this Rivian Standard Workshop are the clinic directors.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: These are the managers, the people who make the decisions.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after this workshop or this orientation, we go to the facility and train the people on site, the people providing the care.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And after this training, we have, you know, what we call the quality assurance.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So someone going to one facility to the other to ensure that what needs to be done to offer the wow experience consistently has been done.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing we also do is that we encourage cross-pollination or cross, you know, exchange.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So within the network, a nurse, for example, in one facility would go to another clinic and spend a few days over there.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: A front desk officer will go to their, will leave their current or their resident facility to go to another clinic, you know, for a few weeks.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So all of these things expose the network to the best practices.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end of the day, we use each other or we hold ourselves accountable.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are some of the ways we are ensuring that the quality care or the wow experience is delivered consistently.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say it's enough because we're talking about culture here and culture is not a one-day wonder.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a continuous process.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we will continue to refine this framework.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we look outside of the ecosystem that you're building and look at the actual primary healthcare ecosystem on the continent or maybe Ghana,

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: what would you say are the biggest challenges that primary healthcare in Africa is currently facing?

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say liquidity issue, liquidity challenge.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: What this means is that the cash available to the clinic or the healthcare facility at any given point in time to run your business.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And this could be as a result of many other problems, right?

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So this could be because this clinic has provided a service using to members or to patients who came with insurance and the insurance companies have not yet paid claims to the clinic.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you would find that many clinics, for example, in Ghana and in some other part of the continent, have stopped accepting government-funded insurance schemes because government takes a while to pay claims to the clinics, which results in liquidity issues for them.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That is one major issue.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Another issue, which again then relates back to liquidity issue, is the quality of the operation of these clinics.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: These clinics are often founded by physicians and are run by the family, the family of the physician most of the time, at least the ones that we do business with.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And you realize that because there's a family business, there's a family component to the whole, you know, business.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if there's a lack of business acumen in the running of the clinic, they don't see it.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So many of these clinics are run like charity.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they run into financial troubles.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is really what we've seen.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The biggest challenge is liquidity for the clinics or for the healthcare facilities.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Even government facilities that receive, you know, funding from government have liquidity issues.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to government facilities today, you will find that many wards are in a very, very poor state.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you ask them, why are you not fixing this?

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They will tell you we don't have the money.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you go to certain government hospitals.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have certain equipment.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You ask them, why are you not buying this equipment to treat patients with these conditions?

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They will tell you we don't have the money.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So liquidity is the biggest problem.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we need to re-engineer the healthcare sector in Africa from a business perspective, you know, to be financially sustainable.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: My challenge is that we look at healthcare as a charitable enterprise in Africa.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is very disappointing.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: The sector cannot be sustainable when we look at it as a charitable enterprise.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We need to look at it as a business and design the model to allow for financial sustainability.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You've noted that liquidity is a huge challenge.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So is this something that you're able to resolve or support with the clinics that you onboard within your ecosystem?

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so we have to some extent.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And the way we are addressing this is that by upgrading the facility, they will then be able to, so by upgrading the facility from all fronts, right, from the infrastructure to the people competency to technology, we are able to attract more food traffic.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would result in more, that would improve the bottom line of the facility.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That's one.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we believe that an increase in the food traffic to the clinic would create more, would result in more cash, in a better cash position for the facility.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The second thing we're doing is that if at any point the clinic requires additional support to cater for payroll, for example, we are able to advance a payroll loan or payroll credit to the facility to address the payroll issue.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We are also engineering a membership program that appears to function like an insurance scheme, but it's not an insurance scheme.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So what it is really is that we are recruiting patients to join a membership scheme, giving them access to certain incentives and benefits.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Benefits like discounts on medical bills, access to priority service, and then free virtual consultations.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the things we are doing to also encourage more people to have access to quality healthcare on a very competitive pricing basis.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would lead, we believe, to a better position, a better cash position for the clinics as well.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: These are some of the ways we are doing this.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And we believe, and our thesis is that when the clinics do better from a financial position, we will be able to use this traction to attract more investment towards the network and therefore better service for patients.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And better service for patients equals growth for the network or for the clinics.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is really our thesis.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The clinics do better.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So today, I'll give you an example.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: When we, some of the clinics, when they joined the network, they were seeing an average of three or four patients in a day.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Today, that has improved from four a day to 10 a day.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That is really a better position for the clinic.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And by doing this, we can prove that healthcare can be profitable on the continent and therefore attracts the investment that is required as well to grow it.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really how we're looking at it.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Earlier, you mentioned that there is a need to re-engineer the healthcare system in Africa.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was wondering if we could talk about that in a bit more detail in terms of, are there specific reforms that you believe are necessary to build a sustainable healthcare future in Africa?

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so the first thing is financing, right?

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But even before we get into the finance, which I talked about earlier on, we need to look at insurance, right?

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Government has the responsibility or government have the responsibility to provide healthcare for everyone.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said earlier, regardless of the person's socioeconomic status, which is a very noble mission.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But this must be done in a way that it does not cripple the players in the space.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Today, like I said to you before, many healthcare facilities, including some government ones, have limited the use of the NHIS, you know, the government-funded insurance scheme.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Because today, the caps, the pricing that the government puts on the national health insurance scheme is not attractive, you know, to the providers.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so that if as a clinic, you know, you only depend on the government insurance scheme to operate, the amount of revenue that you can generate is very limited.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So that is why we need to reform, you know, the insurance industry.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: One that prioritizes co-pays.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to allow patients to be able to carry or to bear some of the expenses as well.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not an entirely free scheme, which, you know, provides liquidity or which causes liquidity challenges for providers.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing, insurance.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Insurance needs to be thoroughly reviewed, looked at, you know, both private insurance and government insurance.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, in Ghana, the insurance scheme is managed by a government agency.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So the government-funded insurance scheme is managed by a government agency that also regulates, you know, the private insurance players.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have a government agency that is also a player in the market.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: If the government agency is misbehaving or the government service is not doing very well, the other people, the private people also follow suit.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And so today what we are having is that some private insurance, you know, companies are equally not doing very well in terms of their claim, honoring claims to their partner clinics.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is bad.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So insurance needs to be looked at very thoroughly.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The second thing is pharmaceuticals.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The cost of medication, which is increasing, you know, and that is really because we don't have strong local or continental or regional pharmaceutical industry.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Today, we import more than 90% of the drugs we consume from other markets.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we are exposed to the foreign exchange, to the performance of the local currency, you know.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And so who bears these costs when the city depreciates in value, which means that the person importing the drug will need to pay more cities in order to import the drug.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Who bears the cost of the additional expenditure that the importer is making?

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: The consumer.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we also need to look at, you know, financing the local pharmaceutical industry to be able to produce medications for local consumption.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: The third thing I would say, really, and this is really a behavioral issue.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We need to, as an ecosystem and from government to the different stakeholders, we need to change the health-seeking behavior of consumers on the continent.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Today, many, I'll tell you, the average person can spend, say, $10 on the box of pizza without complaining.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But today, if you ask them to spend the same $10 on healthcare or on talking to a doctor, they would frown on that.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be a difficult, you know, enterprise for this person because the health-seeking behavior of many people on the continent is not the best.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we also need to carry out more education.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to have reforms, you know, to encourage people to visit the healthcare facilities once in a while.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So, for example, you could be entitled to some tax benefit if you can prove that you visited the hospital or a facility this year or in a given year for complete checkup.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget, what is happening today as well is that many of the deaths, I cannot share the numbers right now, but many of the deaths that we've seen or many of the fatalities and complicated cases we've seen today across different facilities, you know,

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: in Ghana and even outside of, you know, outside of Ghana are related to lifestyle, you know, I call their lifestyle diseases like diabetes, you know, hypertension.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: These are lifestyle diseases.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Why is this happening?

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Because people are not taking good care of themselves.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we not detecting this early?

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're not, we don't have good health-seeking behavior.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: People are not going to the hospitals to check themselves.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is also likely to affect the productivity, not as likely to affect the productivity, but would definitely affect the productivity of the country, which would obviously affect, you know, our GDP.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are the three things I would say.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Reform, you know, insurance sector, you know, encourage people to change their health-seeking behavior, you know, through education, and then boost the local pharmaceutical industry.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we move from reforms that enable better care for patients and actually look at the methods used to provide that care.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that within Riviera, you do emphasize both in-person and virtual care.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you balance these two approaches to provide a seamless and value-added patient experience?

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very good question.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So the way we look at healthcare is that both in-person and virtual care must be complementary.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: One is not above the other, you know.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I have seen many people, you know, trying to promote or put one before the other.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not how we see it.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you a typical example.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: A patient experiences, let's say the patient is at the office, experiences an intense discomfort.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be in the abdomen.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: What they ought to do is not to go to Google, for example, and say, hey, I have a pain in my abdomen.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What does this mean?

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What we would encourage them to do would be to call a doctor via a virtual experience, right?

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So this could be to call a doctor via telephone or through a telemedicine platform, which we are able to offer our members.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So you call the doctor, you talk to the doctor, and you explain to the doctor that I have just experienced intense abdominal pain,

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's very intense, and this is what it is.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The doctor, by taking your history and your complaint, is able to provide first-level intervention via this telemedicine platform.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we ask you that if after this period of time, let's say after six hours or after 24 hours, the symptoms persist,

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: please visit the facility for in-person examination, which will be more thorough,

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: which will be more, you know, evidence-based because we will take labs, we will do scans, we will do imaging,

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and these would lead to better patient outcome.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is really how we look at, you know, balancing both.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after this, you do not have to always come, after this, after coming to the facility, for example,

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: for that in-person examination, you do not always have to come back for subsequent reviews or checkups.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You can do this via a telemedicine platform.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is how we look at balancing both in-person and virtual care at Arabia.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So you believe there's still a huge need for in-person care, despite the fact that we are in a heavily digitalized landscape or environment,

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: which I do agree with as well.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But I will tell you a story, you know, Tessa, let me tell you a story.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We had this case of a pregnant woman passing.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: She passed, you know, that's very, very unfortunate.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she experienced a very, very, very painful discomfort.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So she called the doctor and complained that, you know, she complained.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And the doctor said, okay, based on what you're telling me, you should take ibuprofen, all right, to calm the pain.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And then that was it.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Some few hours later, a moment later, the patient or the pregnant woman experienced very, very severe side effects

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because she was on other medications that interfered with ibuprofen.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: By the time she got to the hospital, she passed, you know.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So we believe that an in-person, in this case, for example, an in-person examination would have saved, you know,

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: this woman from this untimely death because the doctor would have had the time to examine everything,

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to take all the history needed before, you know, arriving at the diagnosis.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So we cannot substitute in-person care.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I say that all the time because in-person examination is important in arriving at a complete diagnosis.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, telemedicine or virtual care has a place in delivering care as well, you know, which we are promoting.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree. I agree.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: As we said earlier, in terms of how scalable is this?

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Because in-person examinations and care requires clinics.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Clinics require investments, as we've touched on, liquidity,

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's a whole lot of processes required to run them.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So how many clinics has Rivia partnered with so far?

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have six clinics, as we speak, and we are currently in the process of onboarding two additional clinics.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe that we could, I mean, our plan is to have 10 clinics by the end of the year.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So that would make it 10 Rivia clinics.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And we just started this year, by the way.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We started, you know, early this year.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We started in January this year.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But the actual work of building the current model of Rivia started, in essence, in March.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's say between March and October, we have six clinics.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That is, tell me, is this not scalable?

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so for us, the way we look at this is that we are leveraging existing assets, right?

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We are not building the clinics from the ground up.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So we leverage existing assets.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you consider the investment that needs to go into a clinic, an existing clinic,

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to look like what Rivia clinics should look like, that is between $10,000 to $15,000, you know,

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: for that clinic to look like, you know, Rivia clinic.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So that this includes the fiscal infrastructure upgrades.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This may include, you know, training the people, deploying the technology, and any other upgrade.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: With time, the clinic is able to generate, you know, liquidity for themselves to be able

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to even upgrade, you know, the year on the operations, thanks to, you know,

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Rivia's participation in the clinic.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And we designed the model in a way that we can scale to about 200 clinics in the next three years.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We are already seeing strong interest in Nigeria.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I spoke to a service provider yesterday who said that I wish Rivia was in Nigeria as we speak now,

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: because Nigeria needs something like this.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And you imagine the size of the market in Nigeria.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the skill is not the problem.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I think what is the problem is execution, right?

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a very tough problem.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We believe that today's entrepreneurs in Africa need to tackle the tough problems.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: For the tough challenges, we ought not to go after the easy ones, you know,

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because look at what other things we enjoy today, you know, all the inventions we enjoy today.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They came through years and decades of experimentations and trials and hard work and tough problem solving.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if these, you know, voters and inventors wanted to run away from the tough problems,

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: we would not have been able to, you know, to enjoy the things we are enjoying today.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I believe that we need to have the stomach for the tough problems.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a problem of skill for us, I think.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a problem of the right skills and competency to execute the model.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And we, on our part, we are building the best team to achieve this.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm very, very happy.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of the things that I'm very proud of the most is our team.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: The ability of our team to really have been able to work quickly to acquire six clinics in the network

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and to be able to even, you know, have 10 clinics within a span of nine months is tremendous.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is really what we need.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Quality talent to tackle the problem.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You hit on a key point, which is scaling is not the problem.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the execution.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: When you're looking at how you execute and how you measure the success,

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: what are the key metrics or indicators that you use to measure the success of your partnerships with these clinics?

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We look at member visits or the number of people visiting the facility in a given period.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We're also looking at the bottom line.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So revenue that is generated as a result of this visit.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And the last thing or the third thing is the patient outcomes.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So how many patients are getting better as a result of the treatment they are receiving from Rivia Clinic?

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We do not want an experience where you come to Rivia Clinic and then you would need to go to another clinic to be treated

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: for the same condition you brought to Rivia Clinic.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And that will be a complete disappointment on our part.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are the three indicators we track.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Member visit or patient visits, revenue performance of the clinic and then patient outcome.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant, brilliant.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess what you're providing is very innovative.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's something that is fresh.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I was so eager to have the conversation as you've only just started this year.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe it has a lot of potential to create or offer something new in the healthcare ecosystem within Africa.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So with what you're doing, I'm assuming you keep your ears to the ground for new trends or innovations that are happening in this space.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So are there any trends that you're currently seeing in the healthcare space in Africa that you're excited about?

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we see that artificial intelligence is a good opportunity.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what it takes is that, you know, AI has always been around for a very long time.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And we all, as a technologist, I'm sure you know that.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What is happening today is that the cost of accessing and deploying AI solutions is becoming much less.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is what really the opportunity is about.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really the, you know.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So we see that there are many use cases for deploying artificial intelligence solutions in healthcare.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: One, for example, in imaging.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you take, if you do, if you go and do, you know, an x-ray today and you need that scan or that result to be interpreted, it's sometimes it's not so easy.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we do not have the requisite number of radiologists, you know, to patient population to address this.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: AI can be a good, you know, use case or a good tool to help them to interpret or provide imaging solutions.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That this is really one intervention that we've seen.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing we've seen is that we can reduce the administrative burdens on providers.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at, if you look at the softwares that people use to provide care at some point, not at some point, people would quickly experience what we call software fatigue or administrative burden.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you see 50 people in a day, it means that you are supposed to key in, you know, over, because with one patient, with just one patient, you're looking at about 20 data points per patient.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, to be key in, you know, to be key in, in the software.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine seeing, you know, 50 people in a day, you can do the math.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That is, you know, 50 times 20, right?

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So that is quite a burden for providers.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we see that AI can be used to, we can embed AI in electronic record systems to allow clinicians to write less and focus more on the patient.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So that would reduce the administrative burden on the, on the providers.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's another use case we are seeing, you know, with, with AI.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I've also been thinking a lot about, you know, virtual reality these days, particularly for mental health and how they can help, you know, people suffering from, you know, depression or mental health conditions to, to, to, to, to, to be catered for.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have seen some use cases of deploying, you know, virtual reality, reality headsets in some, in some of the markets that could be very interesting in Africa.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget that now we are having a lot of, you know, a lot of gen Zs getting into the work, the workspace, you know, and, and they are not so, they don't know what to expect in the work environment.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you find that many of the mental health cases that we are, we're seeing, they are younger people, really, they are younger people.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And so innovating devices like this or gadgets like this can help them address, you know, mental health issues as well.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are the things that we are seeing.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You touched on AI.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was wondering, how do you see the convergence of technology and healthcare evolving over the next five years, specifically in Africa?

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: We see that technology will become entrenched, particularly as a companion, as a tool to aid clinicians or caregivers.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It will not substitute human beings or doctors.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You and I should not pray to live in a world where we leave our hearts to, you know, to codes or to computer programs.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That is not the future that we would, we would want.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so in, particularly in Africa, we see that technology will become more entrenched across, within clinical settings.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You will see many more hospitals using, you know, technology tools to provide care, to aid physicians.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We would see many more hospitals deploying telemedicine solutions.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We would see many more hospitals trying to meet the patients at their point of need.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So you would not expect the patient to fall sick before they come to you.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So they will deploy technology solutions to do that.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we see that technology every day would augment the work that clinicians are doing in delivering care.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what we expect over the next five years.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: At some point, we believe that adoption of these same tools, these same technologies by patient will be very important.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And also, so many patients, for example, can treat, I mean, can't, if they live the lifestyles that are required, you know, certain diseases or certain cases or conditions could be avoided, you know, like lifestyle conditions I talked about earlier.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so by using patient portals, for example, by leveraging AIs embedded in, you know, health management platforms, these patients can learn how to better manage their health and then live a better lifestyle.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, reducing, you know, the increasing rate of chronic diseases.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that that moment is still far-fetched.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_00]: What is happening right now is the adoption of technology tools by care providers.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we look closer to home, where do you see yourself in the next five years?

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: What role will Riviera play in developing the primary care system on the continent?

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we've seen ourselves already as a thought leader in Ghana, and we would want to amplify that.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Particularly, we would want to be in many regions of the world, not just in Ghana, but maybe not in five years.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But might I say many regions of the world, I mean, outside of the continent is far.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not in five years, maybe in five years.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, the other thing I tell my colleagues entrepreneurs is that, look, we ought not to think Africa all the time.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Or we ought not to think our country.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_00]: We ought not to think Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We also think outside of the continent as well.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we cannot be consumers of imports all the time.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We cannot always, or we should not always import everything that we are consuming, right?

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_00]: When we produce something, we should also export it.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are looking at exporting the Riviera model to other markets as well.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So that would position Riviera as a beacon of innovation in healthcare for Africa, meaning that we are taking a model that has worked in Africa that originated from Africa to other people in the world.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So that is a good thing for the continent.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We are seeing our networks across different regions in Africa.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: We foresee an opportunity where we could also be playing in other adjacent segments in healthcare.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I will not share, but we see opportunities in providing services in other areas of healthcare.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So essentially, our vision is to become the largest network of healthcare services on the continent, right?

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Largest asset-like network of healthcare services on the continent.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where we see ourselves.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Quote of the week.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_02]: As people, we often have quotes, mantras, proverbs, or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have one that you can share with us today?

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what I say to the people, it's not a quote, it's maybe a mantra, a personal vision or tagline, is that imagine all the things around you.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the people who did them, decided not to do them.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Just imagine how would the world be.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the laptop you have.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the bed you have.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the house you're living in.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine everything you have.

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine the people who innovated or created these things, had decided not to do them.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: How would the world be?

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So as a human being, you ought to also create.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You ought not to always consume.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So I encourage people to be creators, to be givers, and to dare themselves to do the difficult thing.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I would leave with you and the audience.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that a lot.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Great vision that you've kind of set in my mind in terms of all these things that we take for granted.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess the difficulty or challenge it has taken to get those into our hands.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Prime example, your smartphone.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for sharing that with us, Isidore.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing your journey with us today and giving us insights, a glimpse into the work that you're doing at Riviera and how you're leveraging technology and innovation and putting in processes to reshape primary health care, starting in Ghana and hopefully expanding out to Africa and then globally.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, thank you for your time today.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for this extremely enjoyable conversation.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for hosting me on your platform, Tessa.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I am a very big fan of what you do and keep doing it.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Very great work.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you a lot.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And we will speak soon.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Speak soon.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Cheers.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye bye.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to everyone who has listened and stay tuned to the podcast.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share or tell a friend about it.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also rate, review us in Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcast.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye bye.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye bye.