Empowering Africa: Saving Lives and Livelihoods by Strengthening Africa’s Public Health Systems with Julie Gichuru

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast. Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find inspirational people who are doing inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential. Today, we have Julie Gichuru who is the Chief Public Affairs Communications Officer at the Mastercard

[00:01:13] Foundation. The Foundation's work is guided by its mission to advance learning and promote financial inclusion for people living in poverty. Welcome to the podcast Julie, how are you? I'm good. I'm so happy to be here with you. Happy New Year.

[00:01:30] Happy New Year. All the best. And I'm sure you will have an amazing 2024. Thank you. I can't believe I said 2024, but yes, it's not quite rolling off the tongue. I'm still getting used to it.

[00:01:43] Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, it's we live in interesting times and for the continent and for the world, we're seeing a lot of complexity and a lot of difficulty. But I hope this year is going

[00:01:55] to unlock potential and open doors of progress, stability and prosperity as difficult as it may seem right now. This is my hope for 2024. Amen. Amen. I'm not sure if you've listened to the podcast before, but I like to start from the

[00:02:13] beginning. So I was hoping you could introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about Julie Gichuru. Yes, I have listened. So I was ready. So I'll try to keep it short. There's so much one can say.

[00:02:28] But let me focus on the things that I think define who I am today. You know, I was born in Nairobi, Kenya, brought up there. I'm the child of a Muslim father whose family came from Kashmir

[00:02:38] came to Kenya, you know, after the split between India and Kashmir and things were very difficult there. And my grandfather brought his family over. My father was one year old. My

[00:02:46] mother is a Kenyan from the Kikuyu tribe. And at a time when this mix never happened, it was rarely seen. This young man fell in love with this woman and they got married. So I grew up

[00:02:59] in a, you know, Muslim and Catholic household. My mom was from a Catholic family. And very thankfully my father got along with my mother's father so well that he bought land next to

[00:03:11] my mother's parents. And I grew up in an extended African family setting. And so I'm so appreciative of that, you know, I grew up understanding that we may be different, but that does not mean that there should be discord, right? That you can live in harmony even

[00:03:28] in spite of differences. And so I think that's something that really featured and drove me as I grew and defines me today in so many different ways educated here primarily in Kenya for

[00:03:40] much of my life. I joined the Loretto sisters at Loretto Convid with Sangari for my primary and high school. And I think they also defined who I am in so many different ways. And then

[00:03:51] went to the UK for university, I studied law at the University of Wales College of Cardiff. I think now it's called University of Cardiff, I think. Yeah. And I also did an MBA there,

[00:04:02] came back to look for a job in Kenya that couldn't find a job. Everybody said it will take you months and I needed to earn money. So I kind of walked into a media house

[00:04:10] and did a screen test, I thought I can do that. And they asked me to start immediately. And so my career in journalism began because they had a shortage on the legal desk and the business desks. And they thought, wow, she's got this background. And so yes,

[00:04:25] and then long career in the media and in 2016 left the mainstream media where I had a very successful career to start really focusing wholly on something I began called the Africa Leadership Dialogues and a platform for debates for young people in high school,

[00:04:41] great debate as contest. And the foundation found me in this space in 2019 where I joined them on an incredible mission that the foundation has to see 30 million young Africans in dignified work by 2030s called the Young Africa Work Strategy. I was so inspired. And

[00:04:59] so joined the foundation at that point. That's a quick snapshot. I hope that works. It definitely does work. You gave us great insights into your personal and professional life born in Nairobi. You're from a blessed mixed heritage family,

[00:05:14] education, professional life working two decades in their career in media. Yeah. So maybe we can go into a bit more detail in terms of how you transition from a career in media to the role as Chief Public Affairs and Communications Officer at the MasterCard.

[00:05:31] Yes, absolutely. And perhaps important for me to say that actually we're not MasterCard, we're MasterCard Foundation. Sometimes for everyone, the distinction is not quite visible or understood. But just a quick, quick description of how we were born,

[00:05:47] which was really in 2006 where when MasterCard went to the market for an IPO and they decided to give a gift to the world. And so they set aside 10% of their shares and really set up the foundation as a fully independent foundation. It's really a remarkable thing

[00:06:03] that they did. And the foundation then was headquartered, registered in Canada. And our first work in 2008 was in Uganda. We have worked primarily in Africa. And this is important because our focus really has been, first of all,

[00:06:20] education and financial inclusion for the first 10 years. And then we sat down to say, what can we do that's more strategic? Right? And it seemed clear that the African population was growing so fast and opportunities were a challenge.

[00:06:36] And this was going to become not just an African crisis, but potentially a global crisis as well, but also presented such an opportunity to Africa and to the world if we could harness the potential of young people and give them

[00:06:49] dignified and fulfilling work. And so this is where the Young Africa Work Strategy came from. The only other work we do, just allow me to let you all know, is in Canada, where we work with Indigenous communities. And again, it really is meaningful work,

[00:07:03] is what they're looking for in Indigenous communities for young people. So how I came to the foundation, you know, they were looking for someone to come and build the communications team, the Public Affairs and Communications Team.

[00:07:15] And much of the work was on the continent. So it needed to be someone rooted in an understanding and a knowledge and with networks on the African continent. I think this was an important thing. The foundation was going into a new model

[00:07:30] of working, a foundation in Africa model, which recognized the fact that much of what we do is in Africa. And so it's got to be rooted in Africa, present in Africa, centered in Africa with Africans as part of the team driving

[00:07:43] this work, right? So I was inspired by what they were doing. I was running an incredibly fulfilling platform for me, the African Leadership Dialogues, which took me to many places, many rooms, large rooms, small, small strategic rooms to talk about development, leadership and progress

[00:08:01] for the African continent. And I really was enjoying it. But when I looked at this massive mission that the foundation had, 30 million young Africans in dignified work, I thought, wow, if we could just, if we could deliver this, this is a change maker

[00:08:18] for the African continent, this strategy. And so I worked with the foundation in a consulting capacity for a few months. And then I said, yes, I'm willing to come in. I was so inspired by what we were seeking to do and how

[00:08:31] we were connecting on the continent and wanted to be part of this. So you mentioned something quite important, which is the Mastercard Foundation had this mission of getting 30 million young people into dignified work. How close to achieving this mission would you say the Mastercard Foundation is?

[00:08:52] Yeah, that's a great question in terms of our impact work and everything that we are understanding, analysing around our partnerships and our work. We are at seven million thus far. So we have, you know, we have much more to do.

[00:09:07] But there was a lot of the foundation laying in these early years. So the African partners that we are working with, and you will know so many of them, you will know the Africa Leadership Group as Fred Swanica and the credible work

[00:09:21] he's doing with the Africa Leadership Academy, the University ALX now. You will know Patrick Awuah and the work he is doing with Ashessi and how Ashessi has grown over the year. So we work with a number of African universities. We work with incredible institutions.

[00:09:38] We work with banks on enabling access to affordable finance for businesses, etc., etc. So I think we were laying a lot of groundwork in these early years. And so we will see an incredible pickup over the next few years. So a remarkable amount has been achieved.

[00:09:55] Millions more have been reached in different ways, either through training through skilling. But what we can say is access to dignified and fulfilling work. Our numbers now show us that we are at seven million thus far. Amazing, amazing. So you've detailed some of the great partnerships

[00:10:13] and companies that the Massacard Foundation works with. So what do you believe is the importance of having local organisations and people fully involved and integrated into social development initiatives in Africa? We think it's critical.

[00:10:30] I think if there was one thing that was our superpower in achieving the numbers, achieving impact, it is going to be the right partners. And ultimately, the right partners have to be the partners that understand the problems. Yes.

[00:10:46] Can actually frame the solutions based on where the communities want to go. Because I think the world of development has had the best intentions, right? But very often may come in with thoughts of where people need to be. And maybe those communities don't want to be there.

[00:11:05] Right? Maybe they have a different vision. And these things may be quite nuanced, but they're important. Right? So where are the organisations that understand these things, that understand the cultural implications of the things that we do,

[00:11:19] that understand how to build scale in our position to scale the work. Right? So that is the most critical thing to achieving success. When you are not working with the right partners, you are going to struggle every step of the way.

[00:11:39] You know, we can withstand that kind of challenge. The world is moving so fast. It is so complex. It is so dynamic that the right partners are absolutely critical. More than that, you know, there's something about sustainability when you work with local partners on the ground.

[00:11:58] Then you know, even beyond the work that you are doing, there are so many ripple impacts to working with those partners that enable them to build sustainability, but also enable greater impact beyond your intended impact. And you know, allow me to just reference saving lives and livelihoods,

[00:12:18] a partnership that we have with the Africa CDC. And you know, we entered this partnership in the wake of COVID, right? And we wanted to ensure vaccine equity for the continent. And it was clear that this would be rooted in an African solution with African partners.

[00:12:35] And so we worked with the Africa CDC, the AU, of course, the Africa CDC sits within the AU system. And therefore, through the Africa CDC, we were positioned to work with member states of the African Union, ministries of health and various other organizations.

[00:12:52] While we had come in to address COVID-19 and to deliver vaccines for COVID-19, the health ministry said, hold on a minute. We actually have other conditions, diseases, et cetera, that we're dealing with. And there is potential to strengthen health systems way beyond the response to COVID-19.

[00:13:12] And so we then were able to listen to hear their request that we integrate into delivery of other vaccines, et cetera. We did so. And so the ripple effect of having come in with the right partner means that at country level and at continental level,

[00:13:29] there's been incredible strengthening of vaccine delivery way beyond COVID-19. Now, you know, that's just a small example, but I hope it helps build the picture. Had we gone through many others and we were asked, why are you not using global mechanisms?

[00:13:44] And we said, well, we work primarily in Africa. We want to strengthen African institutions to be able to handle African challenges. Shortly after this, we all saw the vaccine inequity, the fact that Africa was not going to be able to access vaccines.

[00:14:00] I think it was for a year or so. They had all been bought up. You remember this. And so it became clearer than ever that in order for the development world to have an impact, they need to work with partners that are local,

[00:14:15] that are on the ground and to ensure that impact is sustainable. This is the right way to go. Absolutely. So you've detailed the importance of local partnerships and the work that you do. So how does the Mastercard Foundation work with these local partners

[00:14:30] to help them understand the type of impact that you're aiming to achieve? Or is it more of a collaborative approach where the partners inform you or vice versa? That's a great question. So we do have our priorities and we know that, you know,

[00:14:46] we work in education, in training, in skilling, in access to finance. We know our space, right? And so we come into a room with a partner willing to then co-create. So they will understand who we are, what our priorities are,

[00:15:03] and then we're able to determine, OK, yes, maybe there's potential for us to do some incredible things together. What does that look like? What is the delivery of that look like? And it becomes quite a co-creation process.

[00:15:14] We try to live up to our values and our values are I've worked in many organizations that I've never been in a place where the values are truly held up and we strive to really ensure that we're honoring those values on a day to day basis.

[00:15:29] That is humility. We don't come into rooms knowing everything. We come into rooms to listen. Listening is another one to work together to bring what we have to the table, but to recognize the value of what others bring to the table.

[00:15:42] So we're trying to really eliminate a power dynamic that we are the funder and, you know, we come with all the money. No, it's not about that. We may have the funds, but if we didn't have the partners on the ground, we wouldn't be able to achieve anything.

[00:15:56] So humility and listening are critical for us. Co-creation is a value we hold very, very dear. And so we believe in the process of coming into rooms together, going into spaces together, sharing, learning and building for something really incredible with that,

[00:16:12] with the knowledge of all the partners, you know, at the table. We believe in kindness and respect. You know, I don't often see that in organizations, but it's just wonderful to know that kindness and respect is the best way to build trust.

[00:16:30] It's the best way to unlock cooperation. It's the best way to solve problems. It's those simple, simple act of being kind, that act of being respectful. It's actually magical and quite incredible what those things achieve. And then finally impact for us is critical.

[00:16:50] So everything we do when we go into the co-creation process, we're looking at how can we have impact? What impact will we have? How will we track the impact and measure the impact? And then recognizing that there will be learnings that we will need to iterate

[00:17:04] and the willingness with our partners to say, hey, we still continue to figure things out. We may make some mistakes, but let's learn from them and shift and move as needed. So I think these things really determine how we work with partners

[00:17:17] and we strive to turn up this way. It doesn't mean we always do, I mean, but it's something that we constantly are asking ourselves, are we doing the right thing? Are we in the right place? We spend a lot of time and effort on that.

[00:17:29] So it seems like the foundation has a progressive approach to the way it operates in terms of collaborating with partners. So since you've been involved in the development space in Africa, how have you seen it evolve in terms of its outward approach in implementing initiatives or projects?

[00:17:49] Yes, it is evolving. It is evolving as a passionate African and African woman. Is it evolving past enough? Maybe not. But it is evolving and the MassaCard Foundation is at the forefront of that evolution alongside other partners who are, you know, and other development players as well

[00:18:08] who are listening, observing, shifting, changing, you know. And I think the most important thing here is how do we view local knowledge? Do we in development value local knowledge, local perspectives? And I think there's so much more value to the local understanding, to collaboration that is truly respectful.

[00:18:33] And when I say respectful, it means that takes into account the views, the preferences, the knowledge, the experiences of local actors. So they no longer come into a room saying, we are here for your capacity building session. We also need to go into those rooms and say,

[00:18:51] please build our capacity. There's too much we as development also don't know, right? And I'm starting to see this happen more and more. It's incredible to see this. I want to call out certain players that have been doing incredible things for a long time

[00:19:05] that maybe might be outliers. And part of this is just, you know, calling out somebody like the Rockefeller Foundation. And what the Rockefeller Foundation has done for a long time is to actually seed and build certain things that were for the continent.

[00:19:18] For instance, FOWE, which is this incredible organization for education of women in Africa, right? And this was set up and seeded really by the Rockefeller Foundation. Now, FOWE is an incredible partner of ours, the Forum for African Women Educationalists. We do incredible work with them reaching girls

[00:19:39] and young women, taking them to school, training them, skilling them. And so some of this has been ongoing for a while. But I think more of us need to stop and ask ourselves, what is it we're not seeing? What does it really need to listen to and understand

[00:19:56] before we assume certain things and go in with a plan? And so the shift is happening. I think it's still in early days. Once again, there are partners that have, you know, for a long time been doing incredible work on the ground anyway.

[00:20:12] But we as development need to really turn that corner when it comes to respecting, appreciating, acknowledging and taking into account, really embedding local knowledge, local understanding and putting a value to local education. So I think we're going to see more of that.

[00:20:30] I'm excited and hopeful to see much more of that. You mentioned that the development space is evolving. So what areas specifically would you say are key to the development of this space so that it can make maximum and sustainable impact?

[00:20:47] Part of that is being present and being present is about many things. So when you look at development, maybe five, ten, fifteen years ago, a lot of key players who would come into the continent, a lot of work happening on the continent,

[00:21:00] but key players come into the continent from outside the continent. You know, maybe visit with partners, you know, do some familiarity trips, do some media and communications, etc. And then exit again. And it just doesn't work. It doesn't work.

[00:21:15] And so what we're seeing now, and it is something that is clear that the shift is happening in this space, is more foundations now coming and being present in Africa. That means having African teams on the ground. That means, you know, key staff relocating to the African continent.

[00:21:31] That means you are there to hear from the communities, to connect to the communities, to feel the pulse of the nations, of the people that you serve. Right? So I think the minute that happens, the transformation is clear

[00:21:47] because then you are so rooted and embedded that your perspectives are informed in a different way. You are able to work far more effectively. You are able to understand the reasons for some of those small shifts that are necessary and that maybe you would not have supported previously.

[00:22:04] But now you go, I understand now why we have to do this differently. Right? So if there was one thing I thought would be absolutely critical, that is it, you know, I've spoken already to the importance of a mindset

[00:22:16] change in terms of how we think of local knowledge and how we value local knowledge. I think there needs to be a whole drive around the documentation and sharing of local knowledge. And this is actually something that needs to incorporate our own education systems on the African continent.

[00:22:33] We need to work with our universities. We need to work with our schools, etc. To help in whatever way they can at the different levels to also value and embed local knowledge, because many of us took our colonial systems of education.

[00:22:48] And to be very honest, the world is shifting in such a way that we're learning. Those systems may not have worked ideally for us. Some things may not change, certainly. But some things do need to change. And we have a great example from our work in Canada,

[00:23:01] where we work with the Indigenous communities in Canada. And you may know the story of how many of their children decades ago were forced into schools and into the education system of Canada. And a lot is being unpacked and uncovered about that now,

[00:23:17] including the history and the legacy of the residential schools where mass graves of young Indigenous children who passed away there are being uncovered. It's a very heavy history. And so when we went to Indigenous communities and we said, hey, we have scholarships for you at university,

[00:23:34] they said we don't want them. You know, the young people said we're not leaving our communities. They believe very much in their land. They believe in the conservation. They believe in the principles of respectful land and they didn't want to leave their land.

[00:23:46] So what we then did was we said, OK, how do we understand better? How we can serve you? And that was through understanding their perspectives, then rooting our own work in education around their perspectives and their knowledge. So we're doing an incredible amount now

[00:24:05] at ensuring we're building Indigenous knowledge into the education systems for their own communities. But also I think there will be lessons for Canada and lessons for the world. You know, and so this is so exciting because I see so it resonates so much with our experience in Africa.

[00:24:22] And so we start to see we will also undervalued our own local knowledge and understanding, and we need to do a lot of work to shift that. So if there were two things I think are most important, it's those two.

[00:24:33] It's being rooted and present on the African continent and with the communities that we serve. And it is valuing of our local knowledge. Fantastic. I agree being present and using local knowledge is key to increasing impact.

[00:24:49] If we keep on a theme of impact with regards to Mastercard Foundation, how do you measure the impact that you're making, for example, through initiatives that you mentioned, such as saving lives and livelihoods? That's a very good question and a very complex question.

[00:25:07] So I'll walk what we do on saving lives and livelihoods. And then I'll have a suggestion for you as well. So let me start with that. I mean, you know, we have a great impact team at the foundation and they do the incredible work of analyzing the data,

[00:25:21] you know, taking a look at the numbers, the actual scale and scope of what we've done and what it means for the people that have been through our programs, the different levels and layers of impact and the ripples of impact that we've had, etc.

[00:25:35] Right? In simple terms, under saving lives and livelihoods, our partnership with Africa CDC has been remarkable. And literally we would meet on a regular basis to review the numbers and remember, numbers are being pushed up by several different sources. Number one, our member states of the African Union

[00:25:52] and the ministries of health are recording impact. We also were working with a number of implementing partners. Some of them are African institutions based on the continent doing incredible work in health. Some of them are public health institutions. UNICEF is one of them, etc., etc.

[00:26:09] And so we're getting numbers from them as well in terms of what they're doing on the ground. All these are being collected, collated, put together. And then we're constantly tracking through our dashboards, pushing questions back, checking, etc. And we have incredible teams doing all of this.

[00:26:24] And literally over the past two, three years, we've been working with Africa CDC on regular meetings twice a month to go through what's happened so far, what are the numbers? Where are the issues? What might we need to address? It's been an incredible process of working together.

[00:26:41] And we're going to document this for others to learn more from this. But in terms of the detail of tracking impact, you know, I would like you to welcome to your show an incredible, incredible man. He's part of our team and he leads our impact work.

[00:27:00] He's a fellow Nigerian and he can come and give you a very, very clear picture of our impact measurement framework. Wow. And his name is Tadeh Aayena. And so I'm running away from answering the detail of this question. But I'm referring to him, but in all honesty,

[00:27:23] it is remarkable to see the amount of work that goes to tracking impact. And I think it's well worth understanding that. And maybe even, you know, getting feedback back from people on, oh, well, that sounds interesting. Well, have you thought of this?

[00:27:37] Because I think part of tracking again, it's a continuous learning process. Yes. And even as we go to ground now, there's so many things we're learning about. What communities see as impact and things that we may perceive as positive

[00:27:52] impact, but maybe others don't, you know, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. As you say, there's no one size fits all. It's kind of a moving target impact in one area might not be considered impact in a different geographic locality. So, yes, I totally understand.

[00:28:10] But really, I think again, and we're learning this as we go along as well, is with our partners being able to understand, you know, what is it? We are collectively seeking to achieve. What is it we are learning along the way as we track that impact,

[00:28:27] being able to also be willing to adapt and shift based on what we are hearing from communities, what partners are telling us. And so we are on a journey of really building understanding and the ability to be agile, to ensure that we truly are doing things that transform

[00:28:46] communities, countries and this continent for the better. Brilliant. Brilliant. So if we home in on your, you mentioned the partnership with CDC has been instrumental. Maybe you could take us through the partnership in terms of how the partnership with Africa CDC has helped address, as you mentioned earlier,

[00:29:08] the impact of COVID-19 on the continent. Thank you. You know, as an African, it's been remarkable to watch and as someone in the foundation, it's just been an honor to be part of this. So we first started our partnership with Africa CDC when COVID hit.

[00:29:26] And if you recall, the first thing that started was testing and tracing. You remember that? I mean, like, you know, let's try to figure out, you know, who's where, who's been, you know, et cetera. And how do we protect communities by testing and tracing?

[00:29:40] And so we came in, in a partnership for testing and tracing with the African CDC and they did an incredible job. And at that point, what we were doing as well was equipping, training, equipping and deploying over 12,000 workers, community health workers to be able to do this work.

[00:29:59] And they did an incredible job. But we then realized, I mean, you know, COVID got ahead of this. It didn't matter how much testing and tracing you were doing at a certain point, it was now, you know, COVID was everywhere. And the search was for a vaccine.

[00:30:16] And so when we started to understand that, you know, a vaccine was coming, we had already started conversations with Africa CDC as to better understand what the continent would meet. Now, what we had seen as a foundation that is focusing on work for young people

[00:30:34] and with that target of 30 million young people indignified in fulfilling work by 2030, we saw economies shutting down. We saw businesses closing. We saw and understood families were not able to feed their loved ones at the end of the day. This is just how serious it was.

[00:30:52] So economies were shutting down and lives and livelihoods were affected by this, by COVID-19. And we wanted to contribute to building resilience for the continent and helping in some ways to stabilize the continent. And so we started conversations with the Africa CDC and asked, what does

[00:31:16] Africa CDC need to truly be able to have an impact on stabilizing the continent in this difficult time? And at that time, Dr. John Kangasong was at the helm of the Africa CDC and he and our president and CEO Rita Roy and our teams had several discussions

[00:31:36] and we came up with saving lives and livelihoods. And initially we saw this as a $1.3 billion partnership to number one buy vaccines for the continent because we did understand that the continent was going to be left behind. There are so many different priorities that member states have

[00:31:54] that they need the continent needed support to buy vaccines. Number two was moving, moving those vaccinations to get them into arms. And there's a whole chain of events, as you can well imagine, that must be enabled for that to happen. So we wanted to support that as well.

[00:32:10] So the third thing we were clear that we needed to do is to enable vaccine manufacturing for the African continent. Now, Africa needs to manufacture her own vaccines. This is critical. It's a lesson we've learned from COVID-19, but it was something

[00:32:28] that was important for us to do anyway. And so we wanted to leave that strength for the continent behind through enabling workforce development, the training, the skilling, the education that will be required for an African workforce for vaccine development.

[00:32:44] And then finally, we wanted to strengthen the Africa CDC. And so we looked at this incredible organization. We said, look, it was fairly young and had had to support Africa in withstanding the Ebola crisis. And it did a really, really good job in the wake of Ebola 2014 to 2016.

[00:33:04] You know, and the threat that Ebola faced for the world. We have to recognize that there are players that stepped up and protected the countries affected, the continent and the world. Ebola could have had such an impact.

[00:33:18] And so this small organization called the Africa CDC had already done so much. And so we wanted to come in and say, how do we build you to truly strengthen public health on the continent for the longer term? And so this is what we came in to do.

[00:33:35] The partnership grew a little bit more to a one point five billion dollar partnership. There's been incredible impact thus far. And as we move forward, what we're looking at doing is to continue to ensure the most vulnerable people get vaccinated in phase two.

[00:33:52] And that's your health workers, your elderly, people living with comorbidities. We want to ensure that we are building that vaccine manufacturing workforce, but more than that also a community health workforce that can serve the continent. We continue to look at strengthening public health institutions

[00:34:11] on the African continent and strengthening the Africa CDC. So in terms of our numbers, it's remarkable. I mean, you know, we've seen we've seen incredible skilling of the Africa CDC over 100 staff hired into the Africa CDC professional staff to do the incredible work of the Africa CDC.

[00:34:30] We are in partnership with the Institute, Pasteur de Dakar, who are under their Mediba program, starting the training for that workforce for the vaccine development on the continent. Millions have been vaccinated. And as I said earlier, you know, we have strengthened public health systems

[00:34:47] to also deliver other vaccinations. It's it's been an honor. Let me just close this this long answer by saying when it became clear that there would be no vaccines for Africa for a long period of time.

[00:35:00] And we saw the task force that was set up, strive, must see you and others stand up and say this was not acceptable. And Africa would need to find a way forward. And Africa started to work together as a continent.

[00:35:13] We didn't see any other continent working this way together to find a way to access vaccines. It was remarkable. And I just want to say that I hope that in other crisis and even outside of crisis that Africa can work together in the same way.

[00:35:28] It was remarkable to watch and humbling to be part of that. It was it was indeed. Thank you for sharing that. So you mentioned something important, which is workforce development. So how do you believe the focus on workforce development contributes to the long term resilience of African nations

[00:35:47] in the face of a health crisis? Oh, I mean, it's so critical. I and it's more critical at a time when the whole world is looking for health workers. And so we're going to see a continued movement of our trained health workers outside of the continent.

[00:36:07] And so, you know, this is this is definitely a space where we need to continue to stay focused. And we know the first point of call for most people on the African continent will be a community health worker. It won't even be a clinic or a hospital.

[00:36:22] You know, and so the ability to train and strengthen and the training we did in the packed phase with 12,000, I believe in the under saving lives and livelihoods, we hit over 30,000 health workers trained and deployed. And that number continues to grow.

[00:36:37] And as I said in phase two, we are planning to scale that right up. It is critical to have young people who are skilled and able to meet health needs at community level. However, the way we see the health workers is slightly different, the community health workers.

[00:36:55] We're starting to see community health workers as a doorway into careers in health. So whereas some community health workers have been community health workers for years and years, right? And we know how difficult it is for them because pay is often

[00:37:11] it's intermittent and you may be focusing on different things at different times, depending on who's come in, you know, if a development player has come in and is focusing on HIV AIDS, then maybe that will be your focus for a period of time, right?

[00:37:24] And yet, how do we skill them to serve the needs at community level and escalate any issues that need for the treatment, for their consultation, etc., right? But also help them understand that this for them could be a doorway into a career in health.

[00:37:39] So do you want to become a nurse, go into midwifery, etc.? Do you want to become a surgeon, a doctor? Do you want to go into wellness? How do we create these pathways for them to go into the next step? Right.

[00:37:52] And this way, build strength across various different steps and levels of the health system for our continent. You and I know it's an issue across the continent. We don't have enough doctors. No. We don't have enough nurses. We don't have.

[00:38:10] So for us as a foundation, we recognize this as important not just to deliver on our Young Africa Work Strategy and put young people in dignified and fulfilling work. It's also important to safeguard our communities on the continent, their health and their well-being.

[00:38:27] And in safeguarding the health and the well-being of communities on the continent, you unlock the potential of our economies. Less money goes into having to manage health issues. But also we have a well population that are able to thrive

[00:38:41] in the things that they do and are able to deliver for their families and for the communities, etc. So you can just see that effect of having more health workers on the ground and what it could do for our communities. And so, you know, we definitely recognize this.

[00:38:56] It's important to us for me as an African woman, knowing how many African women do not get access to decent health care during pregnancy, you know? True. Very true. You know, right at my core, my feeling is,

[00:39:11] how do we make sure that they do have people around them? So midwives are enough in number, clinics and people in those clinics, community health workers, you know, even when it comes to nutrition advice, wellness advice and able to escalate where needed.

[00:39:27] So this is something that's important for us as the foundation. But more importantly, it's important for Africa. It's important for our communities and it is important for our families. Amen. I agree. So from our conversation, it's clear that you are very pragmatic but extremely optimistic about Africa's future.

[00:39:48] And you do describe yourself as a Afro optimist. So what specific aspects would you say of Africa's future make you the most optimistic? Oh, it's our young people. I love our young people, the energy, the drive, the idealism, the passion, the commitment,

[00:40:10] the love for Africa and you see it and feel it. And, you know, I dare say I don't know how old you are, but for some of us who are a bit older now and those who are educated under the colonial system, our grandparents and our parents,

[00:40:24] you know, we were taught to respect the colonial system. Yes. You know, and even though we tried to push against it, the colonial education was the better education, you know, all these things. But we have a generation of young Africans who there's something

[00:40:39] about their DNA that's rooted in our soil. In a way that we were removed from our soil and we had to re-root ourselves. So some of us actually had to go back and say, I'm rooting back in. I want to root back in, right?

[00:40:55] They are there and that energy, that passion for Africa and for other Africans that love for this concept of the continent, not just our countries or our communities, but the continent is something I think is so powerful. And I keep saying they will transform this continent.

[00:41:16] And what we need to do where we are sitting now is create the policies, enable their skilling and education, unlock the local knowledge so that we're not feeding them the same things that we were fed. And we had to go back and try to unlearn certain things, right?

[00:41:35] And so we have to be the ones that, you know, unlock the challenges and open up for them to transform this continent and they will. That's what really excites me. It's our children and the children they will have and the potential they have for the continent.

[00:41:51] What scares me? Do you want me to answer that? Yes, yes. What scares me is is the knowledge that Africa is so enriched, enriched in resources. We are enriched in human capital. We are enriched in culture. And there's something about how we as a continent

[00:42:15] have to safeguard ourselves, stand together, trade together, enable each other. We can't keep fracturing as a continent. It's going to be imperative that we hold together because it is in our standing together that we will succeed. And if we don't stand together, we are bound to fail.

[00:42:36] And it does worry me in many, many ways. So, you know, the call really is for African leaders and all of us who have any influence to continue to call upon each other to open each other's doors and to hold each other up. It is imperative. It's critical.

[00:42:53] Brilliant, brilliant. So you mentioned your optimistic about young Africans who will surely shape the future and the current as well. So are there any current trends or activities that you're seeing with regards to the work that you're doing in Africa that you're currently excited about?

[00:43:13] There are so many. I mean, even when we talk about local knowledge, local value in that, and you look at I already mentioned Prince Monica Patrick, a war, you know, many of the universities we partner with across the continent, going back and saying, who are we?

[00:43:30] How do we strengthen our education systems? How do we work together as universities? As a foundation, we're building university collaboratives. And so we are enabling African universities to come together. We are also enabling, you know, a partnership or work with other universities such as Oxford, Cambridge,

[00:43:50] University of Toronto, et cetera and learning, shared learning, shared practices, but on the basis that everyone comes to the table with value and there's no one more superior or more capable enabled than any other. And when we create those spaces, those university collaboratives,

[00:44:09] we are unlocking so much knowledge generation and potential capacity. So that for me is really, really exciting. I think it's when you look at the young people and we are as a foundation are trying to do more work at understanding how to partner directly with more young people.

[00:44:26] And so we're looking at working with youth led organizations and they've started testing that. And you look at young people and the incredible innovations and it's everything from there in agriculture, there in IT. We're seeing them around climate action.

[00:44:43] So everything from, you know, recycling to mindset shifts to and we're working with these young people. And I'm really encouraged by the fact that in spite of what young people have around them, so it may not be access to huge funding. Right?

[00:45:00] It may not be huge networks, but they're doing so much already. And then what we are able to do is introduce them into our networks and then they can hopefully use that to scale even further. I think part of the work we're doing around training with teachers

[00:45:18] so leaders in teaching and work we're doing around education through the center of innovation in teaching and learning CITL, the MasterCard Foundation CITL is remarkable because I think that delivers quality education to so much more.

[00:45:34] Some of the things that we need to unlock are gadgets, access to gadgets, of course, access to data, etc. But this is all happening and we are in the room with policymakers asking governments if we are able to bring this quality of education

[00:45:49] to digital platforms, how can you ensure that young people and others in your countries can access these platforms? You know, so I think there's huge potential. There's so much we do that is incredibly exciting. And I think the biggest thing we need to unlock right now

[00:46:06] is just to ensure that policies are moving at the pace of some of this incredible work of our partners and other development players. Because if policies move at the same pace, then we see the scale and the impact at a completely different level.

[00:46:24] Sometimes when the policy doesn't move in the same way, we see incredible things, but you can't unlock the scale that's necessary to transform countries. So this is where more work needs to happen. I think is around bringing the policymakers together

[00:46:40] and rooms of trust, building rooms of trust, spaces of trust, of sharing knowledge, sharing and collaboration. So that's moving from, as we said before, current trends and looking into the future and the work that you're doing through saving lives and livelihoods.

[00:46:59] This is quite a general question, but in the next five years, what role do you envision for Africa in terms of vaccine delivery and manufacturing? Well, I don't even know if it's realistic, but there's incredible things happening in Rwanda, in Senegal, in Kenya, in Morocco, in South Africa.

[00:47:16] There's incredible things happening, right? So let me load all the players who are in one way or another playing a role in moving this along. Africa must be vaccine independent. It must be. And I hope and pray that we get to a point where

[00:47:33] at least we're coming to the majority of our vaccines are capable of being produced, or we are well on the way to being capable of producing them on the continent. This is critical for health. It's critical for dignity. There's a history, as we know, around vaccine hesitancy.

[00:47:54] And I think the ability for Africa to know her vaccines are being produced on the continent and how and to have African health workers in that system will also help deal with some of the vaccine hesitancy issues which are rooted in some of the atrocities

[00:48:09] that the continent faced many, many years ago. Right? And so my hope is that and not just for vaccines, but in so many other ways, even unlocking the Africa continental free trade area and trading with each other in so many other, you know,

[00:48:25] when it comes to food for the continent, it is my prayer that this continent that has these incredible soils, we are blessed with these soils must surely become food secure for our own people, must trade with each other.

[00:48:41] We should not as Africans be looking outside of the continent to import food, right? And this will be possibly one of the most critical enablers of economic growth for our countries, our own countries if we simply trade with each other on food.

[00:48:55] So, you know, there's so many things where we need to become self-sufficient and the systems have been built to trade with our colonial partners, we know this. And it is time for our infrastructure systems, our policies, etc., to be focused within.

[00:49:11] And so the work that the African Union is doing, the Africa continental free trade areas trying to do and many other partners are trying to do, including agencies like NEPAD and the infrastructure for the continent, etc. They should all be plugging within five years.

[00:49:26] We should see these feeding into each other in a way that truly supports the growth of the continent. That's a great vision and one I hope to see come to life. So, where do you see yourself? And the Mastercard Foundation in five years time.

[00:49:41] What great work and impact will you be making on the continent? Well, so for the Mastercard Foundation in five years time, we'll be getting close to our 2030 and it is my prayer that we will achieve the 30 million young Africans dignified work by 2030 and more besides.

[00:50:00] I actually, I truly believe that we'll hit that nail on the head. But more than that is we will be able to look back and say we played a role at unlocking policies. We played a role at doing much more beyond this intended impact.

[00:50:16] And here are the incredible ripple effects of what we have done, you know, just by educating. So just speak to our Mastercard Foundation Scholars Program, which to date has educated close to 50,000 young people. I just want you to think of that number of 50,000 young people

[00:50:34] who would not have access to education, having access to education, but also an education that enabled their leadership. So we weren't just giving scholarships. We were building leaders for the continent who could go back to their communities and contribute

[00:50:49] or from wherever they would be in the world could contribute to to ensuring Africa would be able to grow and thrive. If you think about that, our commitment now has doubled. We're going to get to 100,000. Just think of the ripple effect of those young people.

[00:51:03] So I believe the foundation will have achieved will have to I believe the work of the foundation will transform the continent in incredible ways. Wow. And in 2030, they'll be looking at all the stories and so many more that we would never be able to tell.

[00:51:18] But voices may be coming out to say I was part of that. For me, if I'm alive in five years, you know, as an African, I just want to enable other Africans. I want to enable their confidence and belief in themselves.

[00:51:30] I want to enable their confidence and belief in Africa. And if we can do that, if I can do that, that's enough. That is enough because they will do the rest and their stories will do the rest and their voices will do the rest. So that's my mission.

[00:51:46] Extremely powerful words. Thank you for that, Julie. Quote of the week. As people, we often have quotes, mantras, African proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good. Do you have one that you can share with us today?

[00:52:03] I do, you know, I'm a love of African proverbs and I, you know, I I love to share so many but allow me to share one proverb and my mantra, if that's OK. Yes. So one proverb that I used most recently at Youth Connect Summit

[00:52:19] where all these young people met in Nairobi was hands shake each other. Right. And I just said it and people clapped. I didn't even have to say more. They got right hands shake. We need each other. We have to hold together together.

[00:52:33] We rise and if we don't hold together, we are going to fall. So hands shake each other. Africans just hold on to that. And then my mantra is evolution is life. I'm a Capricorn. I just celebrated my 50th birthday. Congratulations. Happy birthday. Thank you.

[00:52:50] Just a few days ago and I'm so thankful to be where I am. And I'm a person of habit. I don't necessarily like change, but I had to train myself to like change, to accept change and to change when necessary.

[00:53:05] Right. So when you hold on to that mantra, evolution is life. We need to keep learning. We need to keep growing. We need to keep shifting the minute we atrophy, we die. And so keep learning, keep growing, keep shifting. Evolution is life.

[00:53:22] And what a fantastic way to end today's conversation. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast today, Julie. Thank you. Thank you. I was wondering if you had any closing remarks, final course to action for people who are interested in the work that you're doing

[00:53:40] at the Mastercard Foundation? Yeah. So just, you know, we are on a journey to enable young people and visit our website. Just go online, take a look at who we are. We welcome knowledge, we welcome learnings. We have various different platforms where you can reach out to us

[00:53:58] and share thoughts. And so we are on all the social media platforms and we are here to work in a respectful way and to be action oriented and we want to have impact. So we're glad you know who we are now and maybe we'll connect

[00:54:13] and we'd love to hear from you. So that's it from us. Thank you. Fantastic. Fantastic. Thank you for joining us on the podcast and sharing your amazing knowledge, experience and the work that you're doing through the Mastercard Foundation through the likes of Saving Lives and Livelihoods

[00:54:30] and offering hope and resilience for the future of Africa. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I greatly appreciate it and congratulations on the incredible work you are doing with this podcast. Fantastic. Thank you and we will speak soon. Bye, Harry. Bye bye. Take care.

[00:54:50] Thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share or tell a friend about it. You can also rate reviewers in Apple Podcast or wherever you download your podcast.

[00:55:04] Thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast.