Connecting the Continent: Challenges, Solutions, and Innovations to Increasing Internet Connectivity in Africa with Diseye Isoun

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast.

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The intent of the company was to begin to tackle the issue of how to connect and provide

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: internet access to people outside of the main urban areas of the country.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you get from, let's say, the core of a network to the actual customer?

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's great what the telcos have done in terms of being able to send a text to make a call

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's a lot to be said for that. But to go to the next level of productivity,

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: these things need true broadband and this is still a huge void in the developing world.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast with your host Terser Adamu.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find inspirational people who are doing

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential. Today we have another special guest,

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: we have Diseye Isoun who is a broadband and ICT expert who is instrumental in establishing

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: key institutions within the Nigerian Ministry of Communications and Digital Economy including

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Galaxy Backbone, NITDA and Nij Kom Sat. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Diseye, how are you? I'm well thank you, thank you very much for having me.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have to bear with me today because I've actually just come back from New York.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I came back first thing this morning and straight to the podcast so I was there for

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: three days and I think jet lag is catching up with me but really looking forward to the

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation today. Yeah, absolutely. It's a conversation I've been looking forward to,

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: something I think is very timely and much needed whether it's Nigeria or the continent as a whole.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So as we get started, introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about Diseye.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, no thanks and thanks for having me. We had a company we put together and started

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: back in 2002 and the intent of the company was to begin to tackle the issue of how to connect

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and provide internet access to people outside of the main urban areas of the country.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: At a time when Nigeria had just liberalized its telecom sector and there was a lot of excitement

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and opportunity around that and MTN to give them credit took a kind of risk and bought one of

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: the first universal access licenses under that liberalized regime and of course focused their

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: efforts to begin in the big cities. So the whole idea was how do you ensure that over time

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: regardless of where you are and to also try to prevent this sort of

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: slight to the cities from everywhere that ends up creating overburdened infrastructure and

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: cities and people who don't really have a reason or a means to be there,

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: ending up being more of a liability than an asset. So to the extent that people

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: can stay put so to speak but have a good internet connection that is a goal that's worth

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: was worth pursuing with us. Thank you so you've given us a nice overview there of the company that

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you started and how it was focused on improving connectivity not just in the major cities but

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: in areas outside of the major cities where connectivity was lacking. So with the work

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that you've done over the years, how have you seen the broadband landscape develop over

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the last five years saying Nigeria in relation to connectivity outside of the major cities?

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes I think it's interesting. I'd like to give this example that in the developed countries as

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: they like to call them your internet connection at home or at your business etc is provided

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: 85% by ISPs as they're called traditional internet service providers that could be in the west that

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: tends to be like a Comcast or a Virgin or a BT and 15% is common in terms of internet throughput

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: through the telcos, the mobile telcos you know that's more like in the west the AT&T's of the

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: world, the Virgin's etc and the O2s and in the less developed countries it's the opposite where 85%

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: of the connectivity comes through people's mobile phones and only 15% even much much less actually

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: only less than 5% comes from traditional ISPs and this ultimately is not sustainable it's great

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: what the telcos have done in terms of being able to send a text to make a call you know or say my

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: goods are on the way through WhatsApp and there's a lot to be said for that but to go to the next

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: level of productivity or entertainment or personal fulfillment or innovation you know working with

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: software on your laptop you know going to school these things need true broadband

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know and this is still a huge void in the developing world and it's an opportunity

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's a bit of my position that it's an opportunity that the mobile companies are not

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: necessarily best positioned to solve and that is a kind of the puzzle that countries like Nigeria

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but like I always like to say any country that has folks with low purchasing power

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: infrastructure challenges be it lights, water, roads and restiveness you know be it

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: some security concerns or challenges and if you take those three things for better or for worse

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: we're actually talking about 70% of the world so you know these areas have these challenges

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and it will take some outside the box thinking to solve those problems although there's a lot

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot going for us in the last few years. You touched on a very interesting point

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: in Africa over 80% of internet connectivity comes from telcos and not ISPs with that in mind

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: what do you see or believe the role of local ISPs is in bridging the digital divide?

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a couple ways but maybe this a simple way to see it is that if your phone if

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you're trying to get on the internet on your phone and browse you know as you're on the move

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and for some reason you can't get on the internet you don't call anybody ironically right so

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: think about it you just say well I must be in sort of a blank spot or maybe the network is down

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: for a minute I'll just wait right? It's only if you're down for a good chunk of time you might do

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: that so but if you have your internet down at home and you're down for a period there's a phone

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: call you can make or an email you can send or someone practically reaches you and so the

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the big differences is that ISP has as simple as it sounds a support layer

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: it has a layer to which because when you have a connection in your school or at home

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: or in a university or in your small business you tend to need a kind of more of a hand hold

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: it's more of a touch and feel and so you know in the big in the in the developed countries

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: these tend to be very large companies you know who are ISPs but I think my vision and my

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: little experience is that in Africa our solution maybe to have sort of small regional ISPs

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: who can do that touch and feel layer and provide the service obviously there'll be big infrastructure

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: there may be big infrastructure folks behind like the starlings of the world or whatever might

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: be playing out but you need these local folks who know the ground know how it works you know

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: in the informal sector no addresses that are not necessarily formalized the way they are in other

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: places you know and this sort of ground knowledge that is more important I think in our world

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I think is why I think we need these ISPs are required but they're not going to be

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: necessarily huge entities but rather regional perhaps regional or even micro players let's call them

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah the solution would be to have smaller regional ISPs so can these local ISPs compete with

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: global satellite providers as you touch down the likes of Starlink or should they be carving out

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: their own niche within that space yeah so this is the this is the quandary and the place where

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: statistics can lie if you're not careful so big headlines are that Starlink is now the third

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: biggest ISP in Nigeria for example all right now they're the third biggest ISP in the small pond

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: of ISPs but there's still you know the third biggest ISP of 5% of the markets so

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: um what I foresee is that Starlink for example would partner with local ISPs who will find ingenious

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: ways to get their products to places it never will get to if Starlink sits you know in the sky

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and in the west and is providing a service and Starlink will only grow to a certain sort of cap

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: max based on the challenges I said one how many Nigerians how many Africans can afford to pay

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: down payments 400 500 dollars before passing go and then you know paying their 40 50 dollars a month

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the statistics show that only 2% of 3% of Nigerians make 500 dollars in a month and I

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: don't think they're going to give that monthly salary to Starlink so if and when they really want

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: to penetrate the markets in a major way there have to be ingenious ways to cut down that costs

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and I have some ideas around how local ISPs can can can do that partnering with with Starlink so

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not an either or but it's it's a sort of working together yeah so a collaborative effort

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: so keeping on the theme of Starlink from your perspective or opinion do you think satellite

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: internet will be the future of broadband inclusion in Africa or would we see more of a

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: mix of different solutions or options yes it depends slightly on the direction of policymakers

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and governments both in terms of giving licenses and an access but also in terms of where investment

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_02]: monies are spent will we spend a lot of money on fiber as opposed to what I like to call last

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: biosolutions that will empower ISPs there's there's a fair amount of question marks there and also will

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the Starlink's on the Amazon Koi purse which is the Starlink competitor that is around the

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: corner in the next couple years will these folks will they genuinely have an interest in

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: having deep penetration of business in Africa I mean they they will do very well just connecting

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: rural citizens in rich countries they will do very well connecting a person in Finland that

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: lives in the middle of nowhere an American who lives you know in in very remote locations

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know well to do people in developed countries including Nigeria they will they will be able to

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: get that business and there's a good argument to say that will be good enough for them

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that they may decide they don't need to to bother themselves quite bluntly

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: with with connecting the next two million Nigerians they could connect if they

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: if they really got their hands dirty and and worked with Nigerians and had a more of a presence

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: on the ground and and so that's the big question you know will they quite bluntly will they bother

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and it always looks good for the marketing to show you know a satellite dish on the top of

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: an African school but many times that's done but in reality

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that is not actually what plays out so lots of lots of questions on how things will actually evolve

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you quickly touched on something interesting there which I'd like to go back to in terms of

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: last mile solutions so from a internet connectivity perspective could you give us a

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: brief overview of what is last mile solutions yeah so your last mile means how do you get from

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: let's say the yeah not to get too technical but how do you get from the the core of a network to

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the actual customer now that could be fiber that runs all the way into your house it could be a

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: telephone line or it could be a kind of wireless connection through the telcos the telcos by

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: frequency which is very expensive and then only them can use those wireless frequencies

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: so you take the fiber it's very expensive to run fiber to a home and in Africa it's unrealistic

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: for 95 percent of the populace so that's not very not very interesting at least on the short

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and then you have the mobile operators who have all this expensive spectrum as it's called as a way

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to get to your phone or to get to your house wirelessly and that's also a very expensive

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: venture but there are other ways in which you can connect people through less expensive

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: last mile solutions wireless solutions and there are ways that this can be done but it does take

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: taking on policy makers the regulators in countries to say if we really want people to get connected

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: we have to be able to ensure that there are affordable ways for the last mile

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: to be achieved I think this is if there's one thing I leave out of the of what I just said is

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: there are affordable ways for the last mile to be achieved but there are a lot of interests

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: quite bluntly that will not necessarily fall in line with that it has to be

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it has to be something that is driven by policy and by a belief that people should be

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: should be connected so if we look at the current last mile solutions that are provided by telcos

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: does the current telco business model in Nigeria do you believe it serves the majority or it just

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: serves a few it's great and I think this is important to say even though I think I'm repeating

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: myself but it is what the telcos do in terms of connecting people through voice calls basic

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: whatsapps texts has been disruptive in a positive way for the world and Africa

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: but they are not built they are not companies that are structured to provide

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: internet and broadband to millions of people because they are not structured

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: to give that level of support one and two their technology

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: only pays for itself for the most parts in highly dense areas there are exceptions but

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: especially in Africa you know you need x amount of people around your base station let's say

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: around a three kilometer area of your base station to make it worth putting that investment in

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and so for not not by any fault of theirs or any big conspiracy but just because of the economics

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of it they are not structured to to ensure that broadband gets to to the populace

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: they will get a lot of people connected in the cities

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I always there's an interesting thing going on now with MTN where they are actually

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: putting a lot of investment in fiber to the home in the big cities like in Abuja and Lagos

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yes and you wonder why why would a mobile operator be putting money into fiber to connect

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: just a few rich Nigerians well it's because they've done the math and ultimately for them

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a better way or the one of the ways in which they can expand their revenue

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: not by necessarily trying to connect people in in rural areas

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think that's a good example of what I'm I'm describing fantastic thank you for that

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: earlier you indicated that change will likely only come through government policy or intervention

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: so what kind of supportive policies from government will drive better broadband penetration

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: in underserved areas well it would be things like um incenting foreign direct investment

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and local investment in saying we will provide you perhaps subsidies or subsidized costs of

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: last mile frequencies as an incentive to to connect places where you know are currently underserved

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is there is a an agency called the universal service provision fund

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: almost all countries have some kind of fund like that there's typically a portion of the ink of

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: the income of telcos is levied in Nigeria it's 2.5 percent of the the income of telcos

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: is taken by the government and put in a pool and this kind of fund could be the basis to which

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: at least the starting points to which this kind of thing could be done

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: um uh and again there are some attempts to to to use that fund to to improve broadband

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: penetration but I think the way in which those funds are used um is critical and I think that's

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the type of thing that um that one could could look at and the game that the others play is

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: saying you know oh everything has to be competitive and and open and free markets it's a kind of classic

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: arguments um but at the same time if and when those free markets are not

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: achieving certain goals you have to be open to uh to some exceptions um to ensure folks are

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: connected um you know to the internets in this day and age fantastic and I know over the years

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you've done a lot of research in terms of some of the innovations and feasibility of wider

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: internet access and penetration so I wanted to just take this in a bit of a different direction

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of some of the benefits or value that wider internet access can bring so from the research

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and the insights that you've gathered over the years how have you seen or forecasted how

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: improved broadband connectivity can drive say economic growth within certain markets such as

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Nigeria yeah I mean there's lots of statistics around increase in GDP um for x increase in

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: broadband penetration um but I'm not a huge um fan of some of those uh it's funny in New York

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: there's currently just yesterday there was a side event from the United Nations General Assembly

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: yes with a group called SEMA4 seems to be a new media brand yes um you might know something about them

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah so um there was a guy there who mentioned um he was one of the panelists and he said

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not just about what country has the highest GDP per person it's about um how we can drive costs

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: down so that for the same GDP you can get much more out um you know if you live in New York and make

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: 200 000 dollars and you're basically still living poor and have a bad school and have bad healthcare

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: is that better than living in in Lagos or you know and making maybe 20 000 a year but that 20 000

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: dollars a year can still get you as good a quality of life quote unquote um and I thought that was

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_02]: very insightful um I think the benefits of the internet are as clear as are are quite clear in

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: many cases everything from health to education especially when you have young population

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you simply give them the access and they will educate themselves they will take a free course

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: online um because their school is not great they will research uh simple primary healthcare for

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: their grandma you know they will it gives it's quite frankly a way to get around poor government

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and poor infrastructure in many cases they will they will come together to make uh to try to have

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: political action there are any number of ways that that the internet can can be taken advantage of

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_02]: so to speak um so I think you know sort of build and they will and they will come

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that's that's for sure interesting point so if we look at the benefits of internet

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's linked to quality of life specifically in terms of what role have you seen improved broadband

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: access play in improving areas such as healthcare services particularly in remote regions

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: yes I think I think it's everything from um from the ability to the knowledge that is on the internet

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that you can access to internet now equals communication right so if you have in terms of

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: calling in terms of sending information um and again to the extent that you can connect

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you are more likely and willing to stay or be in a certain area of the country

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and build a business uh there or have your children go to school there um all these things I think

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you say it allows you to spread out your your areas of productivity much more

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: much more significantly and where and reduce the amount of everybody trying to get to one or

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: two or three places in the country um in the name of finding a means of living fantastic

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: keeping on that theme are there any specific trends that you're seeing in Africa in Nigeria

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of broadband infrastructure developing or how people are finding innovative ways to

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: increase access to internet is there any trends that you're seeing that you're currently excited

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: about yes I think coming back to the telcos dominance and providing internet you certainly

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: see people tethering their mobile connection to their laptop for example that's perhaps the

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: number one way in which um you know a student connects to the internet um but I do think

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: we do have to talk about and say the elephant in the room star link um put held the potential to

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to allow for um connectivity um ubiquitous connectivity across the country

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's going to be through these potential partnerships with uh ISPs who take care of the

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: supports um and the last mile um and I think that this this will be I think a very large opportunity

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: otherwise I don't want to be you know bringing sort of negative news but the truth is the

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: telcos are struggling now financially the devaluation of the of currencies in many African countries

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is making it harder and harder for them to to chase the technology because you know it's 3d it's

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: 4g it's 5g and all these things involve more and more spending um you're rolling out 5g when

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: only 30 percent of the country has 4g and you're doing that because

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: equipment companies are pushing you know the buying of more and more equipment so

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: this is no longer being sustained but because of that perhaps these some of our the ideas we're

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: starting to throw out there will be looked at a bit more seriously um because the the old

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: way of doing things isn't a sustainable sustainable anymore I agree I agree so if we go back to

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Starlink you know with the introduction of satellite services like Starlink and

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: over kind of slightly touched on this before but how do you see specifically the dynamics

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: of the ISP market shifting in Nigeria and other African countries specifically

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: due to the introduction of Starlink yes I think if I can if I can use an anecdote

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone knows the name Dangute I think certainly Nigerian outside in Africa and one of the tricks

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to his initial wealth if you want to call it that was he realized that a lot of Nigerians

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: could not afford to buy a bag of rice for example so what he did was he satchettized the bag of rice

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: all right so it's called the satisization of the economy and he put he created 500 satchets

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: of each bag of rice and then he sold each satchets or ten naira and if you add up

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: all the satchets he made uh he actually made more than the cost of the bag of rice so ironically

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_02]: poor people are kind of paying more per grain of rice but the point is he was able to put

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the rice in satchets that were affordable and the idea is similar with what I think around

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Starlink in Nigeria may not be able to afford it let's call it a bag of Starlink

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but what you can do is you can put a Starlink

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_02]: equipment at a low cost base station in a place that's protected so security is taken care of

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: in a place that has solar power so power is taken care of clean power and you put a mast up

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe a 40 meter mast 30 meter mast it doesn't have to be anything too too big

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and then you redistribute the internet from that Starlink $400 $500 Starlink kits to 50 to 100 people

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: in the neighborhood be it through a hotspot be it through some point to multi-point technology

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and now you have 50 to 100 people sharing one kit and we don't need and don't expect to have

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: 200 mbps downlink we're trying to get a somewhat reliable link and perhaps 10 20 mbps and this

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: this is you know paradigm shifting for most for most african for most nigerians so it's overkill

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: to for most people to have you know I have Starlink on my roof in in Abuja in Nigeria and I'm

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: 150 meg I don't need it I mean I could use I could use 20 percent of that and be very

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_02]: very happy so the ISP could end up being the person who

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: stichetizes sells to the local lawyer the local plaza the local school

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: the area of commerce there it can be called if things aren't working and you realize there's

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: an issue with one of the pieces of equipment or they have a wi-fi problem or and so there's that

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of touch and feel and Starlink simply provides the quote unquote backbone or the backhaul

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is the model that I think ultimately could could make a major difference now if

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: for any normal reasons this is not the model and it's just about selling selling kits

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: they will probably hit 100 000 150 000 people and then they will cap off

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: whereas if they do this model they could be talking about millions of of customers I hope

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm making some sense oh perfect sense you've given great insights into how the dynamics of the ISP

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: could change your shift in the future so if we keep on the theme of the future where do you

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Africa's broadband or maybe specifically Nigeria's broadband infrastructure in the next five years what

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: would they look like or what would you hope to see yeah I will still lean on on the fact that we are

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: still the wild west in many ways and so there is the opportunity for the unexpected in many ways

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think innovation also having no choice but to to find a way all these I think will

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: will move us towards some of the thoughts I have around strengthening of ISPs

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and yeah indeed I do think that I do think in the next three four five years

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: this is a process this is my view I do think you will see a lot of satellites

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: connectivity providing backbone in in Nigeria and in Africa but this is there's definitely a

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: controversy could on quotes around this there are many folks who are as experienced or consider

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_02]: themselves even more experts than than myself who will say we need to roll out

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: thousands and thousands of kilometers of fiber and we need to invest in doing that

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think it's just left to be seen what actually plays plays out in the next few years

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I think either way I think it'll be interesting times so looking closer to home what are your

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: goals and what will you be hopefully doing in the next five years to contribute to the improved

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: internet connectivity within Nigeria within Africa yeah I think to continue to be to be in a position

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: to perhaps convince advise propose to the the players like Starlink Amazon Koiper

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Lightspeed OneWeb these are the guys more in the sort of the satellite space to

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to become partners to to local ISPs and for us it's a bit of a

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the space I think that can keep us quite busy in the next few years if not doing it ourselves

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: excuse me then trying to be a facilitator of that for ISPs in Africa

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: fantastic and I look forward to keeping updated on all the great work that you're doing

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and will continue to do quote of the week as people we often have quotes mantras proverbs

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good do you have one

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: that you can share with us today okay yeah that's a that's an interesting one I would say

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that a mantra would be a bit cliche but certainly to believe that

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone has their own path and road and certainly you can learn from and should learn from

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: from the past but don't be don't don't believe because you're doing something differently

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: from everyone else that somehow there's anything wrong with us I think especially in

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: in places like like Africa I think the more outside the box you are perhaps the more likely you are

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: to have a fulfilled experience so that would be my take on it brilliant spoken like a true

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: innovator I like that you have to have that innovation mindset and

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: outside of the box no brilliant I like that as we've come to the end of today's conversation

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it's been an insightful it's been a great conversation one that I have been looking forward

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to any closing remarks final course to action for people who are interested in the work that

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: internet connectivity within Africa no I think that's it I will perhaps after this

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: give you a perhaps a contact way of contacting us so to the extent you're interested in

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: in connectivity in hard to reach places anywhere in the world and particularly in Africa

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we'd love to have a conversation with you and see if there's ways in which we can collaborate

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: thank you for joining us today you've gave a very clear concise overview of the current state

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and also future direction of broadband infrastructure and connectivity in Africa it's

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: been a pleasure having you on the podcast and I've really enjoyed the conversation

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: yes thank you so much and for for the idea of doing this and for your time

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: fantastic we will speak soon and enjoy the rest of your day

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and you too all the best bye thank you to everyone who has listened and stay tuned to the podcast

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: if you've enjoyed this episode please subscribe share or tell a friend about it

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you can also rate reviewers in apple podcast or wherever you download your podcast

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast