Beyond Charity and Changing Narratives: Understanding the Layers of African Philanthropy with Dr Keratiloe Mogotsi

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast. I've managed to do my research on how African philanthropic organizations respond to disasters and how they put their own systems in place to assist marginalized groups and invulnerable populations.

[00:00:17] When you think of philanthropy, you think giving money but it also includes giving of your time. It also includes giving off your resources. We have a lot of that because of that in green spirits to help one another. The traditional givers and grant makers,

[00:00:33] the big philanthropists are from the outside and a lot of what is understood about Africa is very macro in school. Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential. You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast with your host,

[00:00:52] Terser Adamu. Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find amazing people who are doing amazing things to unlock Africa's economic potential. Today, we have another special guest. We have Dr Keratiloe Mogotsi from the Center on

[00:01:11] African Philanthropy and Social Investment which works to bridge the gap in the study, research, and practice of philanthropy and social investment in Africa. Welcome to the podcast, Dr Keratiloe. How are you? I'm very well and thank you so much for that warm welcome, Terser.

[00:01:33] It's great to have you on the podcast. So before we start, I was hoping you could introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about Dr Keratiloe. Indeed. My name is Keratiloe Mogotsi. I am an academic

[00:01:49] teacher. I actually call myself a key kindler because I use the power of education to inform and to plant seeds in various lives to help my students to achieve all that's possible with their lives. I'm currently teaching, as you mentioned, for the University of the Witwatersrand and right

[00:02:12] now I'm at Chatham University in Pittsburgh in the US. So I've taken my teaching to a global scale but I remain firmly rooted as an African child. I'm a mother and a wife as well to a teenager.

[00:02:27] She just turned 13. Oh wow. Yes, so wish me all the best with that. And yeah, so that's me in a nutshell. Brilliant, brilliant. Fantastic introduction. So you've given us insights into your professional

[00:02:44] and personal life. I know your work focuses on African philanthropy so I was wondering if you could tell us about your mission and goals with regards to African philanthropy? Yeah, so it's actually a funny story. I got into the field a couple of years ago but my

[00:03:02] inspiration was by our own systems. If you've ever spent any time in Africa, you will know that we do have our ways of doing things. I was just joking with you now about how we treat

[00:03:18] strangers versus how strangers are treated in other contexts. We have our ways and our systems and I felt that those were not infiltrating into the literature and a lot of what is understood

[00:03:33] about Africa is very narrow in scope. I mean some of the questions I get asked here, I'm in Pittsburgh right now. A person will ask me okay they met someone a couple of years ago

[00:03:48] that person is in Nairobi. Have I met him and I'm thinking like do you understand the distance between Johannesburg and Nairobi? You need to catch a four hour flight to get there. So we are

[00:04:02] big continent. We have a lot to offer as well and I managed to do my research on how African philanthropic organizations respond to disasters and how they put their own systems in place to assist marginalized groups and vulnerable populations because a lot of what you see on TV,

[00:04:28] a lot of what you understand in mass media is very limited. It doesn't even scratch the surface in terms of how we do things in Africa and how we help each other. Interesting, so you mentioned

[00:04:42] that your inspiration was from our own systems and our ways and the lack of information that is actually out there with regards to African philanthropy. So what do you believe needs to happen to bridge that gap in terms of the study practice of philanthropy in Africa?

[00:05:03] Yes, so we are working on it. The establishment of the center, I mean the center is about three years old, four actually four years old and it came into fruition because of this gap

[00:05:18] in the practice of philanthropy and the study of it as well. Reason being the field of philanthropy is a very western concept, even that word is a very complicated word. We don't use that

[00:05:32] in our languages, we don't have it in our languages but if you explain to any African, even if they've never been to school what philanthropy actually means. So if you mean okay helping someone, sharing your resources, giving of your time, giving of your energy,

[00:05:52] giving of your resources. They'll be like oh yeah I do that, so am I philanthropist then? So when you explain you realize that it's part and parcel of our day to day lives, we don't even

[00:06:04] need to go to school to learn about helping or to learn about giving and sharing. So the center came about specifically to bridge that gap and to help people to understand African philanthropy which is embedded in our nature, which is embedded in the way in which we do

[00:06:25] things around here. It's our system per se and we even have our own systems of giving and helping. I don't know Tessa for you living in the diaspora and other Africans as well,

[00:06:41] you find that a lot of them also start to create your own systems even in that place that you are living in right? Yes. You create like a giving circle. We know that you have to assist at home,

[00:06:56] nobody needs to drill that into your head. So we create like little community groups where we share our money so that you can assist with things at home or you share your money to help each other

[00:07:10] with big decisions in life or big events in life like your weddings or if you have an unfortunate event of a funeral and that kind of things. So we have our own coping mechanisms and you

[00:07:24] find that even spreading out of the continent because every African child gets grown into this context no matter which part of the the continent you grew up in. We have that embedded in us. So our

[00:07:40] center focuses on trying to bring those systems into place, our own giving circles into place and our own coping mechanisms into place. So you've mentioned something quite interesting there which is philanthropy is ingrained in African culture and also the recent

[00:07:58] studies and research that you're doing through the center. So through this research, how would you say the global interest in philanthropy in Africa has evolved over the years? It's actually growing a lot of interest. This field is growing. The center was the first

[00:08:19] of its kind. It still is the only center on the entire African continent that teaches African philanthropy. However, you find that year on year there are more people that are interested

[00:08:32] in studying this getting to enroll and trying to do some research in the field as well. So a lot of interest has grown but even western like outside of Africa a lot of people are interested

[00:08:47] in African context because there's this huge gap as we've mentioned of studies that are from African countries by African people as well. There's a huge gap of understanding this horizontal form of giving which is embedded in our our life cycle. So it's beneficial for any scholar really

[00:09:12] to tap into this growing field, to tap into the African context because we don't have a lot of research in that area although it is growing very significantly right now. Fantastic. So as you mentioned, the center is the only center that studies African philanthropy.

[00:09:32] So would you say that the lack of research and study done so far is a challenge for African philanthropies? It is a gap indeed because we need more of it right so we would need more centers

[00:09:49] coming up, more studies getting published but more practice as well getting known in outside of Africa. So it is a challenge but also we find that African philanthropies because they have their ways and it's so important to highlight that they also face

[00:10:11] challenges in growing their work. So the traditional givers and grant makers, the big philanthropies are from the outside so if they don't have an understanding of how things are on the ground obviously there's a misalignment from the onset in what are the priorities

[00:10:33] that need funding, what are the priority social issues and social justice initiatives that would need their support. So trying to communicate that to a grant maker who's isolated, who's not in touch with the things that are happening on the ground would obviously

[00:10:52] be very challenging. I must say though that there's growing indigenous African philanthropies so we have big philanthropies that are coming up. I'm speaking of your Danduma foundations, your Dangote foundations, your Mozebe foundations,

[00:11:10] Strive Masihua Delta philanthropies and the like. So we are getting a lot of that which is going to be very helpful to help increase the number of African giving. Brilliant. So you mentioned in order for African philanthropies to grow their work requires cooperation with international bodies. So

[00:11:33] you touched on this but what are some of the challenges faced by African philanthropies when cooperating with international initiatives? It's really a disconnect so if I just give you a practical example, it must have been 2019 there was a major cyclone that hit Mozambique,

[00:11:55] Malawi, Zimbabwe, it swept its way through there actually killed a lot of people in the process, destroyed infrastructure. So it was a crisis, it was a disaster. At the time that the early days after it happened obviously philanthropy puts attention to that.

[00:12:14] So you have all sorts of funders coming to the ground international and local community-based organizations coming there. So the disconnect comes in like what language are we going to use now to communicate with everybody? What process are we going to put in place because UN agencies

[00:12:35] are there they have their own processes, another Dutch or German organization is there as well they also have their own processes. UK funders are there they also have their own processes. So you

[00:12:50] have all these people with different policies and ways of doing things. And we need to act right now we don't even speak the same language in Mozambique, they speak Portuguese. So we found

[00:13:05] that a lot of time is also lost in just trying to get a method going and every funder wants to do research first you know to do their needs assessment before they can act. So at the time you're losing

[00:13:21] time you're also losing people as well. So we found that disconnect and not having clear collaborations because they've never really worked ever had to work together. In such a case you would require the government or the local authorities to help orchestrate everybody but

[00:13:40] in crisis it becomes so much more difficult with all these bodies coming together. So that misalignment and disconnect sometimes comes into fruition and you see it at play especially in crisis situations. I agree, I agree. So if we take a few steps back earlier on you

[00:14:00] mentioned that philanthropy is ingrained in African culture which I agree with 100% but it's not something that we knowingly practice it's just a way of life, a part of our culture. Why do you think this is not recognised and philanthropy is now associated with more western organisations or

[00:14:21] bodies or people? Yeah so that's actually why I hear academics like myself and the Center for African Philanthropy and Social Investment and all the researchers that are there in the center and

[00:14:36] the academics that are there in the center because it is a fact that you don't even a child knows that if something is happening next door, there's a funeral next door you need to go and

[00:14:52] assist. Not on the day of the funeral, you need to go a couple of days before help with the cooking, help with comforting the other people that have lost. We know that and it's become difficult because we inherited, I mean if you know the history of Africa,

[00:15:11] we inherited all our legal systems and processes from the colonial power. So the British colonies follow the British laws, the French colonies follow the French laws etc etc. So you find that in simple things like getting leave if you needed to ask for leave at work they recognize

[00:15:36] this actually happened to me, they recognize your biological parents or your direct parents and your own siblings that's the only time you can be approved for leave. So if your mother's sister or your father's brother passes away they don't recognize that but to us that is your mother,

[00:15:58] your mother's sister is your mother. Your father's brother is your father so it's quite a big deal and you'll be required to do a very big role in that funeral. So it's not something they need to

[00:16:14] take it as seriously as they would have if it was your own father. So we find this very uncomfortable situations that we come up in because you don't understand the African culture that a person is very disturbed if their mother's sister passes away and even if your

[00:16:33] neighbor passes away you may have to go and assist there as well. So we are documenting, we are also preparing a lot of research to understand giving systems right. I mentioned a giving circle earlier. We do lots of interesting things that are praiseworthy actually and I'm very

[00:16:59] proud of so like your merry go rounds. I don't know if you've ever heard of that Tessa. No, no. Yeah this is like where people can come together so I can like me and my friends,

[00:17:11] five of us we are all working, we decide okay this month we are all so we know we contribute just for argument's sake a thousand rent every month right but this month we're all going to give

[00:17:23] our thousands rents to Tessa. Yes. Next month we give it to the next person, next month we give it to the other person. How it helps is that it means at some point or twice during the year

[00:17:37] depending on how many people are in that system you will have a lump sum of money to pay for things that require lump sum of money you know like I don't know put a deposit on a car or something

[00:17:49] like that. So that's how we help ourselves and this is not informal banking system there's a lot of trust that's involved you know because if I don't pay my thousand rents I don't get prosecuted

[00:18:06] but you know you have to so we have a trust based and the form of solidarity knowing that it's going to be my turn one day so I need to do unto others as I would like them to do unto me when it's my turn.

[00:18:22] So things like that to bring that into the limelight to bring these kind of systems and ways of coping that we have for ourselves into the limelight. Brilliant I guess most African countries

[00:18:38] we have a similar system but obviously it goes by different names but yeah I'm very familiar with that fantastic. What do you call it? So does a range depends in which part of Nigeria you're in

[00:18:52] even some Caribbean friends they have it as well within their community and I know it's something is well secure well guarded and if anyone messes about and misses payments it's quite frowned upon.

[00:19:07] Exactly and then who taught us this you say someone from the Caribbean who taught us that nobody nobody exactly and yet we all behave that way. It's amazing yeah. So you've shared some philanthropic behavior in different African contexts and histories and how they differ from philanthropic

[00:19:31] activities in other parts of the world. So would you say there are key differences in the type of philanthropic activities being pursued in Africa compared to outside of Africa? Yes they are and a lot of those differences are actually influenced by the history right so remember

[00:19:53] most of the major philanthropies were formed in the industrial time so if you think of like Andrew Carnegie who made his fortune around the 1800s so he founded Carnegie Corporation I don't know when

[00:20:07] was it early 1900s or something like that. If you think of Ford also made his fortune through the Ford corporation and all of that so during those industrial times a lot of these philanthropies came into being but now the reason for giving was really the tax incentive

[00:20:29] so you wouldn't pay as much tax if you give some of it back and then you find that some that still exist today they still receive those benefits of the tax breaks etc. In Africa however

[00:20:45] because we are so you know our legal processes are sourced by gaitil I can diverse and complex and also influenced by our history having been colonized by various different forces you'll find that there are tax benefits for some and no tax benefits for others or unclear

[00:21:09] policy development for the nonprofit sector so it's not as clear as you will receive a certain percentage of a tax break so already that changes how we look at things because we are registered differently we receive different benefits depending on the philanthropy that you do

[00:21:29] but also because we have this indigenous and horizontal type of giving is what it's called you'll find that we have a lot of giving of time as well when you think of philanthropy you think

[00:21:45] giving money isn't it that how much money was given to that but it also includes giving of your time it also includes giving off your resources so we have a lot of that because of that

[00:21:58] and brain spirit to help one another we do give a lot of our time I can tell you when there's a funeral back in our village which is very far from Johannesburg I get sad because

[00:22:14] I know I have to go right you know I need to make that journey whether I like it or not because people they're not going to mark a register but they will remember that she didn't come

[00:22:27] for that thing you know or she didn't participate she didn't help with that so we have our own registration processes because it means when I'm now grieving people remember oh yes she did come

[00:22:40] and help me and therefore they come and help you as well right so you're sort of investing in yourself as well so our yeah our giving practices are different also you can record

[00:22:56] the amount of time and resources and resources I've not even speaking about just money people can give you a goat can contribute a goat that saves you a lot of money from going to buy meat for

[00:23:09] for your function or give you some chickens that also saves you money for you buying it yourself so it's not large-scale as me giving you a million dollars as a philanthropy would

[00:23:23] but me saving you a lot of time saving you a lot of your own money trying to get that thing as well it counts as well so our systems and our giving ways would definitely be much much different from

[00:23:38] from the Western organizations yeah I mean interestingly from a personal point of view I had a conversation with a friend recently regarding Africans living in the diaspora and whenever they say a funeral or a wedding back home there is an I wouldn't say expectation but you

[00:23:56] know that you have to send something back home yes you have to yes no one expects you really to jump on a flight and go over on some occasions they do but if not it is a yeah there is an expectation

[00:24:13] to send something back home and they're not going to ask you right you just know that you have to aren't you sending they just know that the fact that they've informed you that's enough yes exactly

[00:24:26] yeah 100% so yeah interesting conversation as we've kind of discussed before it is ingrained in our culture exactly nobody told you that no no and it's even more amazing I mean I think

[00:24:41] you mentioned you've been there for a very long time right so yes you can you grab the so that's even more outstanding because you haven't even lived in this context but you know yes you know nobody has to tell you you just know

[00:25:00] you can never take Africa out of the heart I suppose no it's it's it's in your blood it's in your veins exactly yeah so you touch on something quite important there which is the historical

[00:25:11] element of philanthropic activity in Africa which has created a specific narrative so what would you say needs to be done to rewrite that narrative of African philanthropy and I guess challenge any existing misconceptions so I think the step that we've taken on research is definitely good

[00:25:33] so that there is you know scholarly research that you can provide I think now if you google African philanthropy quite a lot will come up as would have come up maybe 10 years ago so we are definitely making strikes there but it doesn't stop there Africans are known for

[00:25:51] storytelling you'll find that education and information is shared through storytelling and I think that's such a beautiful thing because the African people become so wise without even having had gone to school you know what I mean so you need to be able to

[00:26:12] tell these stories we need to be able to show them in our visual literature so the films that are coming from Africa bring that out you know how we do readings around here these giving

[00:26:27] circles that we do it will reach a much bigger population through that through our songs we are very good with music as well also through it if there is somehow about how you've been assisted

[00:26:42] by other people to be who you are today you know and your own giving circles through it in our poetry and our literature then it becomes a way of being for me I've learned a lot through literature

[00:27:00] I think school can teach you a lot but also literature can teach you a lot I'd never been to Senegal until 2022 I visited Senegal but I used to read the books of Mariam Abbar

[00:27:15] I'm not sure if you're familiar yes she was a Senegalese author but through her literature I had this imagination of the Senegalese culture and what to expect there so I was very excited to go

[00:27:29] there and to start to identify some of the things I read about so many years ago so it's up to everyone it's not even just the center's responsibility alone if you are an artist's

[00:27:41] kind of person bring your africanness in that if you are a chef right if you cook we have beautiful dishes I've been searching the streets of Pittsburgh because it's only been a few weeks

[00:27:56] and we're already are missing home and things that I like to eat back home so I've been looking for it right and I've learned that in all these cities there's an African corner some way

[00:28:08] away you can find some of the things that we are familiar with so if you're a cook you know bring it in your work being a chef bring your africanness if you're a teacher like I am bring it out

[00:28:21] in your teaching methods if you are a painter bring it out so we we can all contribute to change that misconception and narrative beautiful so you touched on something important which is that Africans are known for storytelling and history culture is usually past orally so

[00:28:41] what roads you see technology innovation playing within the field of philanthropy in Africa so technology has been an enabler and actually it has created another focus area that we can look into and what I mean by that is thanks to technology now you can easily send money

[00:29:04] home is that right yes if there's some crisis you just go to with the union and and it gets sorted within a day so it has made our giving more efficient we are also able to

[00:29:19] calculate remittances because you can track and count how much inflows have come into a certain area how much outflows have gone or so we can track giving behavior in monetary terms so in other words technology has helped us to be able to measure some of the things that

[00:29:41] philanthropy focuses on to measure the amount of money to measure the amount of time because you have this mechanism that can can do so I find it very interesting and also a very big opportunity

[00:30:00] as well because now unlike in the past we can actually track and measure some things right and I just want to give you a very simple example my grandmother growing up she finished in standard

[00:30:17] five which is I think grade four grade five they are about just when she could read and write and then they they took her out of school however this woman took one look at me when I was pregnant with

[00:30:31] my my daughter I wasn't I wasn't far or long I don't even know how many weeks I was and she told my mother that you she's pregnant and then my mom came to ask me and then I was like

[00:30:44] oh okay then I tested and guess what I was and I'm thinking how did this woman know like we didn't even spend so much time together she just took one good look at me and came up with that accurate

[00:31:00] scientific conclusion right she has never touched a lab coat or any test tubes or anything like that she doesn't have a forecasting tool and yet she can accurately you know predict and focus such things so now we do have tools we have them all starts to measure temperature

[00:31:24] we even have early warning systems to tell you that a flood is about to hit you have this accurate test that can tell you how far along you are so we are in a better time now because we

[00:31:35] have these tools that should make life easier for us so you've detailed how technology has enabled us to measure impacts and money manage time with that in mind how would you say philanthropy in Africa directly contributes to economic development it directly contributes to to

[00:31:57] economic development because without it we may have much bigger poverty levels and this is poverty in the true sense the measurement of poverty now is how many dollars per day you you live on and all

[00:32:12] of that stuff but if you go to a village or if I also look back at how I grew up maybe somebody would have considered that you know less fortunate or whatever but we we were good we were happy right

[00:32:30] you never went to bed hungry you know you had parents and even not only just your mother and your father you had your aunts your uncles people who could support you a network of support

[00:32:45] for various life issues so we were very rich actually we were able to live fully and enjoy life in the way that it's supposed to be enjoyed and I think if you go to some of these villages they

[00:33:03] like taking pictures of African people in like dire poverty but if you go into their home and maybe spend some time and understand how they live do they echo what you see in the picture

[00:33:18] so it almost needs to question what does living well mean what is poverty truly because I think someone who's sick of stress and dying of anxiety and high blood pressure

[00:33:34] and barely having a moment to speak to your child I think that is extreme poverty whereas we got to spend a lot of time with our grandparents we learned stories from them about how they grew up

[00:33:49] and and how they view life and those stay with you for the rest of your life so I just think we need to probably put that into perspective and understand what poverty means contextually I agree so you've detailed a link between philanthropy and economic development

[00:34:08] a key driver of economic development is diversity and inclusion how do you believe philanthropy in Africa contributes to promoting diversity and inclusion of marginalized people Africa is a very big continent first of all 54 states 55 if you include the Sahara region in

[00:34:31] Morocco we have over 3000 languages 3000 tribes even in the same country you may find I know like Nigeria for example has many languages South Africa has 12, Zimbabwe has three but every country has

[00:34:53] more than one or two or even five in some cases so we're very diverse in our nature what that means is that it's also different cultures because of these 2000 tribes different views on things

[00:35:10] different ways of doing things as well so I think in our identity and our existence we are diverse already and we have a lot to contribute to the world in that diversity brilliant brilliant

[00:35:25] so I guess with that in mind what would you say are some of the key areas that need forever attention and development to enable African philanthropy to thrive in the future I think we are making

[00:35:40] ground in terms of closing that research gap but I think what we would definitely want to see more of is indigenous systems and indigenous knowledge I gave you the example of my grandmother but if you

[00:35:55] speak to especially the elderly you'll actually realize they know a lot which they didn't learn from school so they can tell you like you know what we're actually going to have

[00:36:07] havery rings this year right they can be like uh okay the sun is over there it must be three o'clock you know and it is three o'clock and then if you take the roots of that tree so if you have like

[00:36:24] a headache you take the roots of that tree it's gonna sort out your your headache if you go through childhood oh my grandmother came with all sorts of concoctions but you need to take that will

[00:36:39] help you and none of them are pharmacy prescribed so they know a lot so I think we need to tap into that that indigenous knowledge especially before we lose everybody my grandmother has passed away

[00:36:52] but there's still some who are there we want to take as much as we can before we lose that generation I agree so you detailed the need for more indigenous knowledge in terms of

[00:37:06] how to enable African philanthropy to thrive in the future so with that in mind where do you see African philanthropy in say five years time uh five years time is the the near future so by 2028

[00:37:22] so I actually see many more scholars coming up in the field it's promising because of the amount of PhDs that are studying the field also there's the master's degree that was recently launched at the center for African philanthropy and the postgraduate diploma so those people would have

[00:37:44] finished uh in five years time so they're all looking at some of these topics that we've talked about that they're liking in research some of them are looking at community foundations some of them are starting to look at these indigenous knowledge systems some of them

[00:38:02] are looking at um African grant making etc so all of that will have come into fruition in five years time and hopefully we have even more people that are studying this and

[00:38:15] more people that are applying and able to talk about it in their areas of practice because African philanthropy you don't even need to specialize in African philanthropy you can apply it in any field

[00:38:28] even with your podcast right now you can apply African philanthropy in there in health you can apply it in there in education you can apply it it's applicable everywhere I agree so

[00:38:43] looking closer to home where do you see yourself on the African center for philanthropy in five years time well I've actually um grown much faster than my my own imagination but like I'm here in the US now

[00:38:59] I never imagined that could happen but I'm here because of this and I'm also here to continue spreading this message of African philanthropy and social entrepreneurship etc so I hope that

[00:39:14] I'm definitely gonna go home yes and when I do I just hope that maybe I can also create my own center or continue pushing this agenda forward quote of the week as people we often have quote mantras

[00:39:30] african proverbs or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging or when times are good do you have one that you can share with us today yes yes yes yes yes everybody knows

[00:39:44] ubuntu right and but it's such a simple powerful saying which we should apply in every aspect of our lives it says umundumumundumabandu which means I am because you are there was a singer

[00:40:01] called Brenda Farsi she she passed away but she sang a song when she was at the heat of her career just saying thank you to my Africa I wouldn't be where I am without you so she remembered this umundumundumabandu

[00:40:18] and I think let's not forget that once you make it once you are this big shot don't forget the people that made you who you are and know that you are made by people not yourself beautiful you

[00:40:32] actually made me feel like I was back home in that moment yeah I'm happy I could do that that was lovely so as we're coming to the end of today's conversation I know you need to rush off

[00:40:45] and deliver one of your lectures do you have any closing remarks find a course to action for people who are interested in African philanthropy and the work that you're doing absolutely Africa is a

[00:40:57] massive continent we all have a role to play if you're listening to this and you are from any part of Africa you have a role to play as well and like I said it doesn't matter what field you're

[00:41:10] in what your discipline is we can apply this mundu boto into your practice you can apply African systems African philanthropy into your practice so let's do that I hope that we can become

[00:41:25] like the Japanese all right so Japanese people no matter where they go they don't lose yeah so they come into the US they'll teach they'll do whatever but they are identifiable through their names they're identifiable through their language they even bring their customs and systems into

[00:41:48] into business if you do business with someone from Japanese they'll come and give you one of their things that they from from Japan right so our goal is to be like that as well as as Africans to

[00:42:00] be identifiable through our names to be identifiable through our language to be identifiable through our customs and our systems let's not blend in but rather take pride in standing out and share that standing out back to the world as people that have something to offer as well

[00:42:23] I agree 100% I've thoroughly enjoyed today's conversation it's been very different through a lot of the conversations I've had in the past it's something that's definitely well needed enough gain some valuable insights into the growing field of African philanthropy so thank you

[00:42:41] Dr Kerry T. Low it has been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today thank you so much it's been my pleasure thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast

[00:42:54] if you've enjoyed this episode please subscribe share or tell a friend about it you can also rate review us in Apple podcast or wherever you download your podcast thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast