A Party With a Purpose: Rethinking Economics and Impact for Music Festivals in Africa with Walter Wanyanya

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Unlocking Africa podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Unlocking Africa podcast where we find inspirational people who are doing

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: inspirational things to unlock Africa's economic potential.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Today we have another special guest, we have Walter Wanyanya who is a creative and tech

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: entrepreneur based in Harare with business interests in South Africa.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He's the founder of Tech Tools Technology, founder and artistic director of the Jakaranda

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Music Festival, Jubilani Jazz Festival and the Flame Lili Rock Music Festival and also

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Carp DM.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast, Walter.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you?

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm fantastic.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: That was quite an intro.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope I've done you justice with that intro.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you so much.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm going to hire you for the next time that I need someone to do that

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: whole thing.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It would be an absolute pleasure.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, thank you for joining me on the podcast.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you kind of knee deep in festival activities at the moment, so I really do

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: appreciate it.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we get started and get into the conversation, if you can please introduce yourself

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and tell us a bit more about Walter Wanyanya.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So my name is Walter Wanyanya.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Born and raised in Zimbabwe and born in Harare, the capital city of Zimbabwe.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been literally living in Zim all my life, but I do travel obviously for work

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and then all over the world doing workshops or concerts with the different artists that

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I work with.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But all our business and all our work is obviously based here in Africa, mostly

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: in Southern Africa.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I started off in the music space or the creative space as a bass player.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So I started playing bass when I was 13 years old in my local church here called

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Celebration Church.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I started to play music.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And then obviously, as I was starting to play music, I wanted to do more out of

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the music than what I was doing, which was just simply playing.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I got into management and then I also got into even production.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's basically the quickest and the most the shortest introduction I can make

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: as far as that is concerned.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, as far as then the events that we started doing, as you said, in

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the introduction, we do have Jakaranda Music Festival, which happens every October

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's coming up this October, which we are in the middle of planning right

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: now.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We just had Capidium, which was in June.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a new event property that we have, which is DJ driven.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a single day DJ driven event with about 20 plus DJs from all over Africa

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: performing there.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Jakaranda is three days of performances and two days of workshops, so

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: educational workshops to kind of help and equip all the creatives that

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: we have in Zimbabwe about the creative economy.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So we bring in experts that come and speak to the artists.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And these are free workshops over two days, speak to the artists about

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: publishing, speak to the artists about professionalism, speak to artists

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: about everything that they need to know as far as preparing them for

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the international market, regional market and what people are expecting.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We bring in festival directors who can help them to kind of prepare

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: before they are booked for the touring circuit.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We bring in booking agents.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: We basically just avail a lot of information and a lot of educational

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: material to equip the artists that we work with, because a lot of these

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: guys, they come from taking on music as a hobby and they do honing on

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: their skill, which is basically the creative side.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But then the business side sometimes gets neglected.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then if you don't find the right balance as an artist, then it

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: becomes difficult for you to become as relevant as it should be, because

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously the world requires you to be creative and talented.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It also requires you to have the basic business acumen that is needed for

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: you to be able to be part of any economy.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we make sure that we, we know we equip these guys.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So our main sponsor for Jakaranda Music Festival is a bank called

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Stambik Bank.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So obviously they are, you know, financial experts.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So they bring in all their people as well for financial literacy sessions.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we also have guys from the legal side of things that come in

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and talk about IP, you know, the whole intellectual property side of things,

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, agreements, contracts, and that sort of thing.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's something that we do as well for the third property that

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: we have, which is Djabilani Jazz Festival.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We also do workshops for that similar, but obviously targeting the

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: jazz artists that we have in Zimbabwe.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other property that we have music properties called

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Flame Lili Rock Music Festival.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I actually, when I was playing with bands, I used to play a lot

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: of rock music.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So rock music is kind of like my soft spot, believe it or not.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do have the Flame Lili Rock Music Festival that happens every

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: November here in Zimbabwe.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a single day event as well.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But that particular one doesn't have the workshop component to it.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just the performances that we have.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's kind of top and tail of what we're doing here

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in Zimbabwe from a creative economy perspective.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess if we take a few steps back, early on, you mentioned

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that you started in the music industry as a bass player.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you started playing in church.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: How did that experience influence your journey into the music industry?

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That experience was everything for me, as far as what I'm doing now.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It was literally the foundation I needed that I didn't even know that I needed.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is when I went to that particular church, I walked into that

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: church and I was a young boy, young teenager.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd never really experienced church in that way because I had gone to

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a Methodist church in Zimbabwe.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We really didn't have like a band performing, doing praise and worship

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: before someone gets up to speak.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It was all very traditional music and like choirs and, you know,

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: hymns and that kind of thing.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So the first time I went into Celebration Church, which is a Pentecostal

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: church, so there's the full band on stage.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're going crazy.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going wild.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, wow, this is nice.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was really intrigued and I was really interested in the music side

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of things, you know, from that church.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kept on going back to the church because I loved the music.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So I eventually became part of the children's church.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then in that children's church, they said that they wanted

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to start a band for the kids.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So I took it upon myself and two friends of mine, we went and

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: volunteered and said, yep, we want to be part of that band.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't play an instrument.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't sing. We couldn't do nothing.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We had to start from scratch.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So we they helped us to, you know, to start learning.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And after that, after I signed up, I think that same week

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I went into town and I went to look for a bookshop and a music store.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I bought a beginner's guide to learning bass guitar

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and and they did a CD in it.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I literally read the book and played the CD at home.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't have a guitar at the time.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would go to church and practice what I what I'd been reading

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: theoretically at home.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would practice before the other guys that, you know,

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that were more established started playing on ask for the church

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: guitar and I would do the practicals from that little book.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I basically taught myself how to play.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And fast forward, I then became part of the main church band

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and the youth band and basically the touring band of the church.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So we toured everywhere.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We went to Kenya, all of Africa, Kenya, South Africa, Botswana.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we went to the States and performing.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we, you know, we started a big choir called the Celebration Choir.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's still in existence today.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just not part of it anymore.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But so I was one of the very first guys to be part of that choir.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that I would love to mention about my experience

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: when I was in the church was because we were I was playing on Friday

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: at the youth church service.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I was playing on Saturday at the Young Adults Church Service.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I was playing on Sunday, three services Friday

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: one in the morning at eight o'clock and ten o'clock.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And then at six o'clock in the evening, I basically got a lot of practice.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So I put in the hours as far as practice and performing was concerned.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And then also the church had a very high standard of

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: how things are done, you know, as far as preparation,

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: as far as the the church services themselves, the program, how it goes,

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the timekeeping and that kind of thing.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: These are things that I now apply and use on my, you know,

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: when I run my own events, you know, because it literally was the training

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and foundation that I needed as far as live event production goes,

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: which is what I what I do most mostly now, you know, in the music space.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So it definitely helped me to be able to to kind of understand

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: what it means when when, you know, when we say we have to do rehearsal

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: at this time, we have to do soundcheck at this time and why we do soundcheck

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and and and and and so I could go on and on about all that I learned.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But I basically to answer it, your question in a short way,

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: it was literally the foundation, the education, the university,

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the college that I needed as far as me and my team now

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: working in the creative economy of Zimbabwe.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely couldn't be doing what I'm doing if it wasn't for that.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So fast forward to now, you are an established events organizer, promoter.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So what motivated or what was the catalyst

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: behind a transition from a musician to a event organizer?

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I was playing in the church,

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: my focus was just for me to just be a musician.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I never wanted to do anything else in life.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just like, I'm going to be a musician all my life.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: This is it. And I loved it.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I love being able to create.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I love the power that you get from, you know,

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: banding together with five, six people in a band.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You write a song, you create something and then you,

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, you play it for people.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: They accept it. They enjoy it.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it was just so fulfilling to be able to say, hey, wow,

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, we've got two thousand, three thousand, four thousand people in church.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're presenting a new song that you guys would have written

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and perfected over a couple of months.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got these people that are really appreciating the music

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and the work and the creativity that you put into it.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It was so fulfilling to be able to see people enjoy,

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: see people dance, see people happy from what you would have created.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of like I was I was addicted to to to being able

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to make people happy in that manner.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, no, you know, there's not I don't want to do anything else

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: in life. This is it.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I would love to just be able to do this all my life.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the time, I was young and I didn't have a job.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't go to university or anything like that.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was pretty focused on doing that.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But obviously, there was a time now where I needed to kind of get a job

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and get a good decent salary because my mother at the time

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: was the one that was financing all my musical needs, my guitars, my travel,

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, transport just to get to church and back

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: because we were not funded by the church to be able

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to be a musician in the church.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We we had to fund ourselves, so we're not getting a salary or anything like that.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So my mom had a really modest job as a maid, as you want to call it.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So she wasn't a highly paid person.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So she was struggling to obviously get all of us kids to school

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything else. And here I was wanting to be a musician

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm not paid.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to get a job.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So because I had to get a job, I then had to switch my mind

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to have a paradigm shift about what it means for me to be a musician

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and how it can be profitable.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to do it. I want to be a creative.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But funny enough, as you mentioned, we I do run a company

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: called Tectool's Tectology.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I did get a job.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, I came across, you know, the IT space,

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: which is not something that I had experience in.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But I just wanted a job that kind of can supplement

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and give me money enough for me to become a musician

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and maintain that life as a musician.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So I got this job and I didn't care what I did,

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: as long as it gave me enough money.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And I got this job from someone that was already in the church as well,

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: who understood my commitment to the church.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was happy with that because then they would allow me

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to leave and to go on tour and to record

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and to do the kind of stuff that would give me time off

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: because they were in the church with me.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was pretty happy about that kind of setup.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, as I got into that IT field, I excelled in it.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I became a specialist, you know, in the Epson printing space.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So we used to supply computers to banks, to schools and things like that.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we would also supply those computers with printers

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and scanners and cameras made by Epson.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So I went and got training as an Epson technician

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and I got certified and I became, you know,

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the top technician in the company.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, I was still playing music and at church.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So now, at least I wasn't bothering my mom about money

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and things like that. I could sustain myself.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time as I was working and doing what I was doing in the IT space,

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I was now thinking seriously about how my love for music,

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and how I can turn my love for music

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and the creative space into income, into something that can actually

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: earn me money because I didn't want to continue being an IT expert.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also didn't, you know, didn't want to give up my music

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: because both things were now demanding, you know, most of my time.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So at the end of the day, I found a way of being able to do both.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I managed to do both.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I eventually then after that, got trained as an Apple specialist.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So working with Apple products, iPhones, you know,

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: iPads and things like that, which is what TechTool does here in Zimbabwe.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So I basically found a balance between me being an IT technician

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: or IT expert, if you want to call it that, and me being a musician.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: A transition from then playing bass to management,

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because the demand that was there for me as a bass player was so huge

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that I couldn't balance the work time and also me being performing with a band.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I then decided that, you know what, I'm going to put my guitar down.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still going to get involved in the creative space,

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'm going to now start managing artists

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: because I obviously now had a bit of experience in the business space.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to now merge the two, you know, my knowledge in the business space

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and then also what I know as an artist myself.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So I then started working with a young artist that I started managing.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, I eventually started managing one of the biggest artists

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: in Zimbabwe, which is Dr. Oliver Mtukudzi.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you know about him, but he's, you know,

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: he is literally one of our iconic musicians in his past away.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But I managed him the last six years of his life.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is then fast forward to that.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually, obviously, starting my company, Gomanewo,

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: which does all these events that we've mentioned already.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Plus also does management and plus does artist development.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But every now and then I do pick up my guitar.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I still have all my guitars.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I can, you know, I can do studio work, you know, if I've got the time.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And then sometimes I do, you know, get on stage

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and I do play with bands every now and then.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, brilliant.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm still getting the pleasure that I got from performing on stage.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I still get the same pleasure that I get from actually creating these,

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, even properties that we have.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm still exercising my creativity and everything else.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of still the same.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same, but it's it's close.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You are experiencing the music industry and IT tech space.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess it's safe to say there is a bit of a crossover

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to tech and music.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you think the tech business

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: or being an IT technician has shaped your understanding

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: of the creative and music space?

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely helped me a lot, because, you know, like,

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: if you look, especially now is things have been progressing

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: in the creative economies all over the world.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, with the coming in of streaming,

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: with the coming in of using devices, you know,

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember when the iPod was introduced,

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it changed the face of music and how we consume music

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: because the iPod was a transition from the Walkman and the Discman

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and that kind of thing.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That was my early days of getting in and working with Apple

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: when that particular device came.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And the iPod eventually demanded that app store,

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_01]: which then came onto the iPhone and then the app store

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: giving access to the gazillion of applications

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that are now available on iOS and then also obviously on Android.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So I literally saw the development of how the music industry

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and the creative economies have now literally changed

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: based on how technology has been changing.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're talking AI and how is AI going to affect what we do

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and how we consume creativity, how we consume music,

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: how we consume products?

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many things that I'm so grateful for right now

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because of my foundation in the IT space.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I can be able to move with the times without me trying to harness

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: or to understand what's going on with technology.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: If I was just a musician who is not clued up about technology

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_01]: is going and how it's how it's actually affecting how we

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: how we do business today.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So definitely it's been a blessing because not a lot of people

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: who are in my space also are involved in the IT space.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's an advantage.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I can say that it was definitely a God thing.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason why that, you know, those two things intersected

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the way we're working together now.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's an absolute blessing and I'm loving how things are going.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think maybe our company or business has progressed

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because of that.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And most of my guys are also very clued up about what's going on in tech,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: especially for Africa.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're definitely not behind.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So would you say the success you've had in the tech business

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: has influenced the way that you operate in the music industry?

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely. I think the success that I've had in the tech business

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: gave me the business foundation, which then I merged with the creative

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: foundation that I had, you know, when I was playing in the band

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was doing just creative work.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the company that I used to work for before

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually started my own IT company.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I then started running that company on behalf of somebody.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So I've also got business experience

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: in the IT space, basically how to run a business,

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, whether it was an IT business or Grocer or whatever.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But I got experience in being able to run a business as an entrepreneur.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I then merged the experience that I got in the IT space

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: from a purely business perspective and then, you know,

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: applied all those things in the creative business that I was now starting

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: because I had to formalize all the work that I was doing

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: from management to events and and and it had to be formal

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: because the work that we're doing, we're dealing with other established

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: businesses we couldn't do and work just as informal musicians

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and things like that.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to now register company, get all the paperwork

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that are needed in Zimbabwe for you to be able to operate as a business.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: ETC, so it's definitely helped me to be able to

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to make business decisions that are not just like shooting in the wind,

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of thing.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I understand. In the intro, I forgot to mention that

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you're also the founder of Ngomo Nahosho.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is a artist development and promotional company.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So is there any crossover between the IT tech work

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and the event management work that you do?

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is a crossover.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The crossover comes funny enough, you know, like the stores

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that we use for the IT are also our box offices.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, brilliant.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we're actually selling tickets and doing everything

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that we need to do, we've actually used the IT stores

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: as places where people can buy tickets.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of morph in between being an IT store and also a box office.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So what we do is we just get someone to man kiosk or a counter

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that people can then now just come in, buy tickets or come to do business

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that is Ngomo Nahosho related.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So Ngomo Nahosho and TechTools kind of work on,

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, on each other's back, they scratch each other's backs

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: in many ways.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And also with the IT side of things, all our ticket scanning

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and things like that, then TechTools is the one that then

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: can do the procurement of all the gadgets that we use for,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, access and things like that, because we're a technology company.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So TechTools is basically short for technology tools.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they definitely interact and they're definitely related.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a huge advantage to have both companies running.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's clear that you've created almost like an ecosystem

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: between your different ventures.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So do many of the artists that you manage

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: actually play at your festivals, such as the Jacaranda Music Festival?

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they do.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we have to make sure that I am not biased when we're curating artists.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we're creating the artists lineups,

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: we basically look and say, what is the festival playlist asking for?

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: What is the festival vibe or what are we looking at this year

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and which are the artists that we need?

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And if it so happens that some of the artists that we are working with

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: under Ngomo Nahosho is, you know, as we do management

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and artist development, if they are meeting those requirements, we can book them.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So we just have to be very careful that we are not only booking our acts,

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and making sure that our guys are the ones that get,

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, to get stage time.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But we definitely, you know, have some of our acts being booked at Jacaranda.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Mtukuzi actually was played at the very first

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Jacaranda Music Festival, which was in 2018.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So he was one of the first acts that we had.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But obviously, the reason why we had him there was he was

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and possibly still is, you know, the greatest of all time.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: As far as as far as the Bourbon artists go, we couldn't have Jacaranda without him.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was he was definitely iconic.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So we had him at the first Jacaranda and offstage.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He inspired me a lot as far as doing what I'm doing now

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and, you know, and pushing and going for it

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and being able to build all these platforms and doing what I'm doing right now.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So he was a huge influence and mentor, you know, obviously, as well as Dr.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Humasekela as well.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's amazing the kind of work and the kind of help

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that I got from those two particular gentlemen.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing to have such mentors to work alongside.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually quite jealous.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So you mentioned the festival vibe and the ethos determines who plays.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you look at, I guess, the ethos behind the festivals

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and the inspiration, the drives that what was it that inspired you

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: to actually create the Jacaranda Music Festival?

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So before I created the music festival, remember,

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I was also working and touring with Dr.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Oliver Mtekudzi.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd seen a whole lot of festivals everywhere.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Portugal, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana, all over Africa, the UK.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I had seen what people are doing on the festival scene.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I also got mentorship and help from

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Bra Peter Klade, who is the founder and director of a festival

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: in South Africa called Joy of Jazz.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I was introduced to him by Dr.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Humasekela, and both of them were, you know, all friends from back in the day.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was working with Dr.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Masekela, introduced me to Bra Peter, who was the festival director.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started, you know, shadowing him and basically gleaning on him

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and hearing more about working and festival spaces in Africa.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And as far as that was concerned, I kind of helped,

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, in one or two events outside of Zimbabwe.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know, you know, I really need to do something in Zimb

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: because we needed more spaces.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a lot of musicians basically in Africa, not just Zimbabwe.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a lot of musicians in Zimbabwe that are extremely talented.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are not popular, but their music is good quality music.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they don't get good platforms for them to be able to showcase

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and be able to perform, it will take them a long time

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: for them to be seen and appreciated and for them to be able to get

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to a point where they can see something happening with their music.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do have concerts, but usually with the concert,

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you've got two or three opening acts and the headliner, and that's it.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of those concerts happen.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So the reason why I wanted a festival was we wanted something

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that happens over a couple of days

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and then something that also gives a larger number of artists a platform.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of three artists, we have 12 artists on a Saturday.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We have eight artists on a Friday and we have 12 artists on a Sunday.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So it means that we can we can actually put more artists on a stage

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's a festive environment and we can have, you know,

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the young up and coming artists come and showcase.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It is not really about, you know, this guy is a big act.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: This guy is a headliner. No, no, no, no, no.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at good quality music.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So the festival itself is the main attraction

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the artists are the bonus.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So we make sure that we just get really good artists.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of the people that do come, even Zimbabwean people

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that are coming to our festival, they don't even know

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: some of these artists that we put on our stages,

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but they are there among them.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But what they've known is they know that if they see a name on the lineup,

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they may not know the name, but they will know that

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: they wouldn't be there if they are not good.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have tried to push and make sure that the festival itself is the attraction.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the reason why people come to the festival.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Then it means that we can now go and get the young artists,

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the grassroots artists to be able to come and perform at Jacaranda

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: without them being there because of their name and whatever.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So that way, it means that we can definitely do more

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and we can create more.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And then obviously, the other thing that the reason

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: inspired me to start the festival was the education side of the event itself,

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: is I'm really passionate about education and sharing of knowledge.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that, you know, we could do more,

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: not just in the creative space or the music space on the continent.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But if we shared more knowledge amongst us, no matter what it is,

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we can do more as a continent.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot a lot of times, I don't know about anywhere else in Africa,

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but a lot of times in people in Zimbabwe, if someone knows something,

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: people are not really keen on sharing what you have done for you to be progressive,

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: what you've done for you to be successful.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that sharing tips and nuggets,

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: if something has taken me 10 years, if I share with somebody else,

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping that what has taken me 10 years is going to take them five years.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they do the same and share it with the next person,

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: if it took them five years, the next person to share with,

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it must take them two years.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is across any industry, across anything that we do as Africans.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that sharing knowledge and also documenting a lot of what we do

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of what we're talking about, the lessons that we have.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's important if those things are documented, if that knowledge is shared,

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: if we gather around and get young people to say, hey, this is what I did.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It took me two years to do this and avoid this, you know, maximize on this,

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: learn new languages, maximize on this skill and that and all that kind of stuff.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe the education side of things is pretty critical.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why we started the workshops and that's why we also started

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the performances themselves, so that you know that we can.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I would really love to see a really big, robust,

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: creative economy coming out of Africa.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So you mentioned that you're passionate about the educational side of the festival.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you look at that in a bit more detail in terms of

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you believe or feel the festival actually impacts

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: a local community in Harare, both economic level and cultural level?

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So on the cultural level, like I said, we are definitely geared

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and we encourage a lot of the young guys to stay true to their art,

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: stay true to their identity.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we do get influenced by a lot of music that is not Zimbabwe

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is not African, but we also encourage our artists

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that they give us authentically African Zimbabwean music,

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever it is.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: The world doesn't need another Jay-Z, doesn't need another Beyonce,

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't need another Rihanna, but Rihanna is going to respect

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: an authentically Zimbabwean artist.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Jay-Z is going to respect an authentically Ghanaian artist.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And the people of America are going to respect

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: authentic African music, not music that's trying to sound American.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that makes sense.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So we always encourage a lot of our people to make sure that

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: the music that they're presenting is authentically African,

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because if we're going to be relevant, you know, on the world stage

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: is only going to be relevant if we are presenting the world

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: something that is authentically African.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I believe that we are impacting the cultural aspect of things.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And also still in the cultural aspect of things,

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: we also make sure that we try and bring in other people from other,

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, from the continent, Zambia.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Zambians coming to perform in this year's festival.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got guys from South Africa, we've got guys from Mongola.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got guys from Nigeria at this year's festival.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That also encourages now the interactions

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: between the different cultures across the continent.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the cultural side of things, the business

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and the community side of things.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We run obviously every festival, you know, needs food.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We need we need to eat when we need to drink.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do have the, you know,

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Stanley Bagchang, a music festival, Food Village,

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: which we don't run a food store ourselves as the festival.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_01]: What we do is we we get young people that are in the catering business.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We get them and they come and, you know, put up their stalls

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and their food vans and their food trucks.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And they are the ones that are running and selling food in the food market.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So last year we had about 25 stalls,

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: which means that it's 25 young young people or small to medium enterprises,

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: SMEs that came in and managed to do business in Jakaranda.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't tell you the numbers right now off the top of my head

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: of how much that kind of activity created.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll be able to give you the numbers later.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, we are seeing a lot of people

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of businesses that are also attached to the festival annually.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is just with the one festival.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And we apply the same rules on all the five properties that we run annually.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do have a huge ecosystem that is working around the festival itself,

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: where we providing employment and providing business opportunities

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: for other business units that are there.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We also have this year for the first time,

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: we've got an SME exhibition space that we've created

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: because we've moved into a bigger venue.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We've also now seen that because we've got a bigger space,

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: we need to also now have a showcase where businesses can come in the exhibit.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Besides the food vendors, we now have other businesses,

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: small to medium enterprises that are coming in.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: They get a space.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: They come and showcase their ways or they just talking about their business

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and saying, you know, this is who I am.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I do.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: This is where we are found after the festival.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they give out business cards.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an opportunity for them to network and be exposed.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We put their logos up on the big screens, that kind of thing.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So that is definitely is a highlight and it's an exciting thing for me this year

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: because that's a new thing that we're doing as far as having exhibitions

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: for small to medium enterprises.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So you touched on the economic benefits for local businesses.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But if we look at, say, people coming in,

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you see maybe the Jacaranda Festival or African

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: music festivals as a whole contributing to, say, the growth of

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Africa's tourism industry?

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I guess when we look at festivals, we sometimes just think of the music side.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But when we look at it from the economic side, there's a lot of growth

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: or activity that happens and people coming in.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you see that working in terms of the benefits

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that it brings from a tourism perspective?

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: The tourism aspect, you know, there's so much that can happen

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as far as people traveling all over the continent for the purposes

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01]: of consuming festivals and enjoying festivals.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, it encourages tourism.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So, for example, if you look at South Africa, we are kind of connected.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: South Africa, it's an hour and a half flight to South Africa,

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to Jobik from Harare.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an hour's flight from Harare to Lusaka.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a two hour flight, two and a half hour flight from Harare to Cape Town.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an hour and a half flight from here to Maputo.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are pretty close to each other.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: If we were in Europe, literally, you know, you'd be jumping in

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: from the UK to France to Germany, that kind of thing.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: But it does happen from a European perspective.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But in Africa, travel is not as easy as it should.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. You understand?

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So we actually do have an example that I can give you is

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I do have artists that are coming from Nigeria.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to have three stops somewhere before they can land in Harare.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But if there was a direct flight from here to Nigeria,

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: they would be taking a seven hour flight.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But they have to take more than 24 hours before they get to Harare.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is with, you know, different airlines.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to stop in Joburg.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to stop in Dubai.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to stop in Lusaka, Dubai and Harare.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: They have to stop in Joburg, Kigali and then Harare.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So because of those stops, it makes it so expensive.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So my point is this.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what needs to be done.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, you know, where the solution is going to come from.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But we could be seeing so much more travel happening

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: for the purposes of tourism and everything else.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: We could be our own customers as Africans.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But traveling around Africa is very, very hard.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier for me to get to London than it is for me to get to Abuja.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about it.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is which is weird.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's and I'm like, how?

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: How is that possible?

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's also like visas and things like that.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We should not have visas really for fellow Africans.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We are asked to get visas for everywhere else.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Fine. That's OK.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think as Africans, we should also loosen the whole visa

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_01]: processing and that kind of thing so that our people can be able

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to travel the countries and be able to enjoy

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to enjoy each other's company, enjoy each other's countries

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and appreciate each other.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you probably see that you won't have any of these stories

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that you hear about xenophobia happening is I think the biggest problem

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: is that people are just not traveled and people don't know that in Nigeria.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Life is good in Zimbabwe.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Life is good in South Africa. Life is good.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And once you see other people enjoying themselves in their own environments,

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: when you see them in your environment,

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't think that they are there to threaten your environment.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is the biggest.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the biggest issues is that because people are not exposed enough

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and people are not we're not interacting enough as Africans,

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: there's too many still too many barriers.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: With that said, it also means that it's a huge opportunity

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: for us to be able to grow.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we can grow as a festival to the Zimbabwean audience.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But imagine what can happen if we have busloads, trainloads,

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of people that are flying in from Zambia, Malawi, Kigali,

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Joburg flying into Zimbabwe to a festival that has got 30,

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: 40 thousand people.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: What it does for the hotels, what it does for the airlines,

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: what it does for food, what it does for travel, ground transport,

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: taxis, Airbnbs, all the kind of the domino effect is huge.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And you see that happening everywhere in the world

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: when you've got an Adele concert happening in Germany.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: A friend of mine lives in Germany.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: She was telling me how every single business benefited

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: just because of that concert that just happened recently

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in the last few weeks or so.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And that can also happen just looking at the African continent

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: as a target market.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do see a lot of people coming in and it's picking up

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: where we've got a lot of people coming into Zimbabwe

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: from the neighboring countries, coming in for Jakarta music festival.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's a whole lot more that can happen.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just for people to come here for festivals.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's people coming here for business meetings,

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: for investment opportunities.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If you as the CEO of your company can quickly come and see

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: what I'm doing on the ground that I want you to invest in Zimbabwe

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're based, you know, and you're based in Abuja.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: How then do we have business?

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: We lose business because it's difficult for you to be able to come here,

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_01]: fly eight hours, you know, be with me for 72 hours.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I show you around and you fly another eight hours.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: But if it's going to take you seven days or four or five days,

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: then you're losing time flying where you should be working.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, when you consider all those things now, you're going to be like,

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I can't invest in Zimbabwe because it's just difficult.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot and a long conversation can happen around that particular topic.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So what do you believe, say,

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: policymakers need to do to support music festivals in Africa

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: in order to create economic impact?

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the conversations need to start, you know,

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: between the different

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: organizations in the different countries.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So for people that do represent creative economies.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm talking about, you know, the art councils of the different countries.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have a National Arts Council of Zimbabwe.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And for the first time with Jacaranda,

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the National Arts Council of Zimbabwe, after, you know,

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: we met with them and we pleaded with them and said, hey,

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: we want to work with these Zambian artists in Zimbabwe.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Can we go through you to talk to the National Arts Council of Zambia

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to facilitate for these artists to come?

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And we do have an artist called James Sakala,

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: who's a young artist based in Losaka.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's coming into Jacaranda Music Festival based on the collaboration

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: that's happening between the National Arts Council of Zimbabwe

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and the National Arts Council of Zambia.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think more and more of those kind of collaborations

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and more of those conversations between government to government

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: relationships, if they happen.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And then with us as the private sector working with artists,

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: we work together, we can actually see more happening.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And when policymakers are involved in all this kind of stuff.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's the National Arts Council

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that I've just given you an example of.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We can also go up and go to the ministerial level

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: where the Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture in Zimbabwe

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_01]: is having a conversation and has a memorandum

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: with the Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture in Tanzania,

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: in Botswana, South Africa, in Ghana, in Kenya.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And we say, hey, you've got even properties in Kenya.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We can send two, three artists to your festivals

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that the Kenyans are doing.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we receive two Kenyan artists and we receive three Tanzanian artists.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But the drive is coming from a governmental level.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes it easier for us as well, because now it means that

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: we can possibly get some kind of budgets or some kind of funding

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that can come from government to help with mobility.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Because remember, we spoke about the flights, besides them being long.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They're also very expensive.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's that kind of help that we need.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the minute that we start making deliberate effort

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: into having conversations and not just stopping at having conversations

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and actually start implementing these conversations and agreements,

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll definitely see more happening between governments

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and between African countries in the creative space.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: One area that you are getting support with is through sponsors.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So what do you believe the role

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: sponsors play in the success of the Jakaranda Music Festival?

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So sponsorship is critical.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we wouldn't have the festival the way it is now.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: We ran the music festival for about

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: it's only eight years running this year.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: For the last three years, we've had the partnership

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of our main title sponsor, Stanley Bank.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So we do appreciate their help.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We obviously started it from the ground up

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and we ran it and we didn't get any sponsors.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was very difficult.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Was a time where we say, OK, we're doing great.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: We're breaking even.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But can we continue?

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The problem, the answer to that question is we would probably

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: would have come to a point where you think, OK, you know what?

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not do it because we need a lot of money

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and we need a lot of funding to be able to do it.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So sponsorship is critical.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But what's important is for us to be able to get to a point

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_01]: where, you know, the creatives are also doing what they need to do

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: so that we become attractive and we become good, better ground,

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_01]: for lack of a better word, for sponsors to be able to partner with us.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Because sponsors are also they're in business

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're looking for properties that they can partner with

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that make business sense to them from a marketing perspective,

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: from reaching the end user, from being able to showcase their products.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: ETC, ETC.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So the role that we need to play as the creatives, as the practitioners,

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_01]: is to make sure that the environment is good enough

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: for those partners and sponsors to be able to come and partner with us.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So so that, you know, it's not a hard sell.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not we're not shortchanging them.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't they don't put money in.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, oh, no, we didn't get what we wanted out of it.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's critical that we also, you know,

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: make sure that we do what we do so that we can get the partners

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and sponsors on board.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You touched on a key point there, which is making sure

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the environment is good enough so that you can attract sponsors.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: If we discuss down a bit more detail in terms of how do you go about

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_02]: securing and maintaining these sponsorships?

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I think from when we started, we would have to kick down doors,

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: we would have to bang down doors, we would have to borrow,

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: we would have to beg, we would have to send emails,

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we would have to do all sorts of things. We still do that.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the properties that we're working with as our reputation

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_01]: has been growing as a good company was good festivals to partner with.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We do less and less of that for obvious reasons, because now,

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the sponsors have seen that we've been consistent

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: for so many years and it wasn't a fluke that Jacaranda

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: was great and successful the first year, second year, third year, fourth year.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they had to obviously look at us and say, OK,

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: these guys mean business, they're here to stay

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're consistent with their quality and they come and then they do that.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So we also have to be consistent in making sure that, you know,

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: we deliver what we said we would deliver on just like any partnership.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it doesn't have to be sponsorship.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: When you get into any partnership, you've got your end of the bargain

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're supposed to keep up.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You just make sure that you do that.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you can do above what you said you would do better.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I would say that you just stay consistent

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and make sure that the product is good and the product is something

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that people would want to partner with and put their name,

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: their logo next to yours.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It's clear that you understand the importance of sponsorship.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think many people within the African music industry

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: understand the importance of sponsorship and also how to secure sponsorship?

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I think people do understand the importance of it and the need for it.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes then matching the understanding and the need for it

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and actually doing what is needed for you to be able to get it,

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: is that's where the problem is.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a lot of people know that, you know,

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to be able to do A, B, C, D for me to get to the next thing

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and the next thing and the next thing.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people are not prepared for that,

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to do what's needed for you to get where you want to go.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I'm going to give you a personal example.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been going on a weight loss journey.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that I wanted to lose weight.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I knew that I needed to get into shape.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But I wasn't prepared to spend the hours to change my eating habits,

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_01]: spend hours in gym and sign up and spend money on,

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, on personal trainers.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's exactly the same thing.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people that are in my space, in my shoes,

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: know that they do need sponsors.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But before you do get sponsors,

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: there's certain things that you need to start doing

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: before you become attractive and before you become a target for sponsorship.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where the trick is.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you just need to do what you need to do

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: for you to become a good attractive event property

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: for you, for sponsors to come and work with you.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Over the last few years,

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: we have seen the rise of African music globally.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: With this rise, has it attracted more sponsors or investors

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: who are interested in partnering with African music or creative brands?

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially Zimbabwe, as we're getting to that point,

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: for some years we really went getting, you know,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of support from the corporate world.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_01]: We did get a phase where we had a big festival in Zimbabwe called,

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, Haifa, our international festival of the arts.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you may know that one.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It used to get a lot of support from the corporate space.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But after that, that festival not only happens now,

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but after that, we didn't see a lot of anything happening,

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, as far as support to the creative industry goes.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's getting better and we are seeing more and more companies

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: coming in and supporting creatives and artists in that space.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And because I also work on the continent,

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: we are seeing a lot of corporates definitely putting money

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and throwing support to the creative space.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, I'll talk about Stern Big Bank,

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_01]: whose mother company is Standard Bank on the continent.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: In Zimbabwe it's called Stern Big Bank.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They actually have a huge presence and circuit

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're actually starting that contributes to the creative economy.

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got festivals that are actually related.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Our sister festival is called Luju Festival,

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_01]: which happens in Swatini, Swaziland.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_01]: The bank also supports a big festival in Zambia.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_01]: They also support a big festival in Namibia and Mozambique

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and Joy of Jazz in South Africa and also in Kenya.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So because they are doing all these events across the continent,

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we saw it fit that these events actually need to be related

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_01]: in many ways, where we share skills, where we share best practices.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We were in Swatini about three weeks ago for Luju,

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and I went with the marketing executives from my bank here in Zimbabwe

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and marketing executives from Namibia,

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_01]: from Swaziland, from Lesotho, from Zambia and from South Africa.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And we managed to meet on the sidelines of that event

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to actually discuss the direction of where the bank is going on the continent

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and also how they can play a part with where we are going as,

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, creative entrepreneurs.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're seeing more and more of those deliberate

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: conversations happening and it's exciting what's ahead.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is just us in one bank.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a whole bunch of festivals in one bank.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And how many banks do we have in Africa and how many companies

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_01]: do we have in Africa?

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's some global companies even that could also be part of this whole

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: drive. And Africa definitely is popping right now.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of big African artists have really emerged in the last five, six years.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, winning Grammys, winning a lot of awards

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: on a big world stage.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's definitely a lot of scope in investment

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and in support that can come from corporate worlds

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: to the growing African creative economy.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: As you said, a trend that we're currently seeing is increased

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_02]: interest from the corporate world.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we move from the current trends and look at the future,

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_02]: where do you see Africa in five years time in terms of how we cross collaborate,

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_02]: whether it's across markets or with partnerships with the creative industry

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in the corporate world?

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you see that evolving in the creative industry?

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'll go back to the same answer that I gave you earlier on,

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_01]: we've seen how businesses have really embraced the sporting sector, for example,

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_01]: soccer teams, you know, the Olympics, the NBA,

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the NFL, whatever.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_01]: There's certain spaces and certain issues and certain things that

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_01]: in the sporting world, they've really gone the extra mile

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_01]: into making sure that they create spaces and create value spaces

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and value chains for corporate to slot in.

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why a lot of these sports are so big now.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, on on our TVs, we have 30 sporting channels

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and we will have five music channels.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason why that is is because there's a channel for basketball.

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a channel for dedicated for, you know, Formula One.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a channel dedicated for soccer and football.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So whereas for music, there's one channel that's dedicated

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_01]: for a whole bunch of music related to anything.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm driving at is we need to possibly look and see

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_01]: how sport has managed to make space for corporate,

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: which has then made all the sports bigger.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: In Africa, I don't really know much about Formula One,

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but I don't remember a Formula One race happening in Africa.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people consume Formula One in Africa.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why it's consumed in such a big way

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is because obviously the corporate, you know, companies that have poured money

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: into that have made the sports popular even here in Africa,

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_01]: even though we don't host that particular sport here.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing with the NBA.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an American league, but it's big in Africa.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We a lot of people watch it here.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And same thing with the British Premier League.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's consumed heptically in Africa.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But how did it become so big?

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's because of the way that they managed to create

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_01]: ways of working with business so that the sport can be bigger.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So the bigger the the bigger the reach that you have as an artist,

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_01]: as a festival, as any creative,

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_01]: the more money that you can attract and the more corporate support

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you can attract.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot that is also still demanded from us as practitioners

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to see that kind of growth happening.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_02]: If we look closer to home, where do you see yourself

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and the work that you'll be doing in five years time?

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_02]: What influence do you hope to have on Africa's creative music industry?

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like the work that I'm doing right now

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously demands me to physically be in good shape

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything else.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So as I'm getting older, you know, I would love to still be involved

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in the creative economy, but not necessarily

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in anything that demands too much of me as I'm getting older.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I want to teach for as long as possible.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to be able to create platforms

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_01]: or be able to take part in anything that is educational related.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I love the education side of things

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and I love the sharing of knowledge in that kind of thing.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that I can be able to share what I know and what I've learned

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: or create spaces where others are coming in to teach,

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_01]: create creatives, creative practitioners, creative entrepreneurs,

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, anything that is to do with the creative space, music, whatever.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to be involved in that space, something like that.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing. Thank you for that, Walter.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Very wise words and it's clear that you're in it for the right reasons,

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_02]: right intentions to create impact, not just for yourself,

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but the whole ecosystem and people within it.

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_02]: As people, we often have quotes, mantras, African proverbs

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_02]: or affirmations that keep us going when times are challenging

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_02]: or when times are good.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have one that you can share with us today?

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not necessarily a proverb.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not necessarily an old African saying,

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but this is something that I learned from my mentor, Dr.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Huma Sekela, and I literally have it tattooed on me.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It says love, learn and teach again. Wow.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And when he told me about that is, you know,

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you've got to love whether you love what you do, you love people.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this world is driven.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_01]: The positive side of this world is driven by love.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to be able to do everything that we do with love

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and without love for each other, without love for those around us.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We really have nothing, you know, and when you love something

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and when you love what you do and when you love other people,

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that is what is going to be the foundation.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what drives you.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And once you have something that you love or once you have someone

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that you love, once you have a group of people, your country, whatever,

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: then you're going to want to learn more about it,

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01]: which is then the next word is love.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Learn and you're going to want to learn more about people.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to want to learn more about whatever practice

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you want to learn more about playing base or doing events or whatever.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So love, learn. And the last one is teach.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And for whatever it is that you love

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and whatever it is that you've acquired knowledge about in your learning,

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the next best thing that you can do is to teach other people about it

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and to share your knowledge and to be able for that particular thing to grow

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for you to be able to love people enough to teach them also

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01]: so that they become better than you.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's something that I would love to say is the last

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: or the last thing that I'll say.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Love, learn and teach beautiful, love, learn and teach.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's clear that you live by that.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a fantastic conversation, very refreshing conversation, Walter.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing your incredible journey with us

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and the great work that you're doing via the festivals

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and the music aspect and also the cultural and learning, educational aspect.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_02]: As someone who in my early days spent a lot of my youth

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: in the music industry, I really enjoyed our conversation today.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, brother.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I really, really appreciate it.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for thinking of me.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for inviting me to talk to you

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and to have this really great conversations.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I've basically enjoyed it.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant, brilliant.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I look forward to hearing how things develop with

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: not just the Jack O'Ran the music festival,

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_02]: but all the other festivals and ventures that you're involved in.

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And we will speak soon.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, brother.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to everyone who has listened and stay tuned to the podcast.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: or tell a friend about it.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also rate review us in Apple podcast

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_02]: or wherever you download your podcast.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you and see you next week for the Unlocking Africa podcast.