Millions of Streams, Little Ownership: Is Nigeria Building a Music Industry or Just Exporting Talent? with Shola Bamidele

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02] Well, let's take care of our own first. Let's know our own. All hands on deck towards a common goal.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00] Stay tuned as we bring you inspiring people who are unlocking Africa's economic potential. You're listening to the Unlocking Africa Podcast with your host, Terser Adamu.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01] Welcome to another episode of the Unlocking Africa Podcast, where we explore the ideas, innovations and strategies unlocking Africa's economic potential. Nigeria's entertainment industry generates an estimated $4.9 billion in revenue, while its music sector is projected to surpass $1 billion in 2026.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01] Yet, global recognition and millions of streams do not always translate into meaningful income, ownership or sustainable business for Nigerian creators. Weak intellectual property protection, piracy, limited finance and poor business infrastructure continue to restrict how much value they retain.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01] Loom Records is a creative ecosystem based in Nigeria, helping African artists develop their craft and build the commercial foundations. Loom Rooms is a creative ecosystem based in Egbeda, Olimosho, helping African artists develop their craft and build the commercial foundations required for lasting careers.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_01] So, Shola Bamidele is the founder and CEO of Loom Rooms. Shola, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Unlocking Africa Podcast. How are you? I'm fine, thank you. It's great to be here, Tanana. Thank you so much. Fantastic. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast as well. And as always, in typical Unlocking Africa Podcast style, I always like to start with a nice introduction from yourself,

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01] just so we can get a feel or understanding of who you are. So, give us an intro into who Shola is.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02] Alright, so my name is Shola Bamidele, obviously. My career has moved through radio, media, communications, production, entertainment and creative direction. And across all of these spaces, I think I'm culturally the same thing. Like, Africa has extraordinary creative talent. But the talent is often expected to somehow become a sustainable kind of itself.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02] And that's one of the things I struggled with because I didn't have most of the basic training when it comes to creativity. I just know I felt something inside of me and I just wanted to do. I wanted to sing, I wanted to dance and all of the nine yards. It was up until I moved outside the country to Amsterdam. Then I noticed that, wow, there's so much structure with their art. It is their lifestyle. It has become culture.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02] It is a way to remind the younger ones of where their fathers, their ancestors are coming from. And the structures, their buildings have character. And architecture has a way of really telling the story of different times in history. So, in my mind, I'm like, why don't we have this thing back in Africa, back in Nigeria? And that's pretty much what brought about the idea of creating new ones, apart from a very personal story. But in a nutshell, that's who I am. Fantastic.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01] You've mentioned some very key pieces of information there in terms of, you know, Nigeria has no shortage of creative talent, but far fewer creative build businesses that remain, I guess, commercially successful over time. So, why do you believe the country has become so effective at producing talent, but also struggles at the same time to build sustainable businesses around that talent?

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02] It's pretty much very easy for us to see. I would look at the likes of the Burner Boys and pretty much what Afrobeat is and the conversation around it over time. We saw the likes of, we've seen the likes of the Whiskey, the Burner Boys, the Irish Stars, the Thames. And I am studying K-pop and I see how they have been able to transcend just not the brand as an artist, or create like institutions out of it.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02] And I always say, okay, what happens when there is no Burner Boys? What happens afterwards? Where is the company? Where is the mindset rather to drive on the next generation, to inspire them, to show them all of the knowledge, to share the knowledge that has been gotten from a foreign institute or foreign countries? How are we tackling the issues of touring, merchandising?

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02] How is it that Burner Boys most likely doesn't have like a range of fashion jackets or purple jackets? We've seen, what's her name, Rihanna. Rihanna has done it beyond music and she didn't even become a billionaire from music. It was from fashion. So, it's the diversifying because we've seen her embody fashion. I look at Irish Stars and I'm like, why is there no Irish Stars skirts?

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02] So, these are the kind of ideas I see and I just want to like, how can I create something where everyone is like a rarest and smart?

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01] Fantastic. And I guess that is the challenge that you're trying to solve via Loom Rooms. Loom Rooms describes itself as more than a creative space, but as a system that helps African artists grow, evolve and last. So, maybe you can dive deeper into that in terms of Loom Rooms, what you're currently doing or what you saw and the system that you believe that needs fixing. I know you've slightly touched on that now, but if we can go into a bit more detail.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02] Okay, fine. Thank you for that. For me, like I said earlier, I was starting from Europe and I'm looking at the problem. I'm like, okay, how can someone be a fantastic filmmaker but not know how to build relationships or to deliver professionally? And sometimes you look at the work in the creative space because I was also, I worked in fashion as well. And I saw how we kept running to meet deadlines for fashion shows outside the country, the fashion week outside the country.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02] So, I started asking, what if we, instead of developing the arts, we develop the dressing and the ecosystem around the arts? And this is where Loom Rooms came about. So, our belief is that art should be strengthened by character, collaboration, by respect and success, by structure. So, basically, we are a creative development ecosystem. So, music gets made there.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02] We have our content produced together here in Ibeda. Egbeda is in Alimo Shop. Alimosho is the largest local government area in Lagos. And a lot of people look at the fact that, okay, why are you not in Anikui? Why are you not in Ileki? Why are you not on the island? For me, I believe the raw talents are here because it is one of the most difficult things to get creators to even trust that you mean well.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02] So, there's a lot of skepticism with them and there's a lot of back and forth. But I believe I've been able to see a video director or a videographer, rather, now understand that he's producing music. He's also rapping as well. He has now created his own company to teach young students here in Alimo Shop about filmmaking, about videography, about storytelling. I've had producers now learn how to direct.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02] I've had, like, a brand manager at 18 just learning on the job. So, it's pretty much just getting everyone to understand professionalism. It's the bridge between your creativity and the corporate system because, in the end, your creativity is a business and you should carry it as such. It might take a while. It might take mistakes.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02] But first things first, how can I have the mindset of the youth here change to see, okay, I am a creative. I don't necessarily have to be in the arts. I could be a conductor and I could find creative ways of calling in my passengers. I could have a jingle to call them in. There are lots of things that I feel like we just need to find joy in the job and the works that we're doing. And that's pretty much what Loom Rooms is, just coming with one, live with many.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01] Okay, okay. Understandably, many creatives focus on making great work or building an audience. From your perspective, at what point do you believe an artist should begin thinking like a business owner, not just an artist or creative?

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_02] From the point in which you've been able to define your brand and your brand is based off authenticity. Now, I've noticed with trends now, no one is tilting towards a brand just for a brand, just for the smokes and smoke and mirror. People want to connect with you. We're now in an emotional time where emotions are like everyone wants to feel your story. Everyone wants to connect with you.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_02] So once you're able to discover yourself, and that's one of the hardest things to do with the artists because they have been influenced by a lot of pop culture from either the country or outside the country that they get lost in identity. So once you are able to know who you are, then you would understand that, okay, this is who I am. I would not be ashamed. I would not be shy of going on TikTok. I would not be shy of putting this persona on social media because it is necessary and it is my work and I have to get it out there.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02] I would not be, I would understand the viral moments. I would understand not just following trends or creating culture. From the moment you understand who you are as an artist and what you stand for, because I tell them that music or creativity doesn't just come from God knows where. I feel like someone in your ancestry, someone has done what you're doing before. So it's just finding out who you are, where you're from and using your arts to serve humanity.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02] And just, it's always a you before me mentality. So as long as you understand that, you can start making new money.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01] So from your experience, what tends to happen when that transition comes, I guess, too late in terms of an artist's understanding that they need to think like a business owner?

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02] That's the, it's still a dabble because that's when you begin to see the selfishness. And I cannot blame them because a lot of people function from a place of survival. I do not blame anyone for that, but most times you are, there's this saying that if you want to create a, for lack of a better word, if you want to create a beast, be careful, it bites you first. So that awareness of self is like, oh no, I think I'm bigger than this now. Oh no, I think, oh, I shouldn't be doing this.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02] I shouldn't be doing that. And I'm here like, no, you've not gotten the community yet. My major problem is that selfishness. And that's why I always tell my, my, my people, I say, you're not the star. That's our rule number one. You're not the star. You're the galaxy, but you cannot function as I am just the only one. You should be able to serve others, serve humanity. I think it's getting them after, after they realize that, okay, I found my brand.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02] I found my calling. I don't think they really understand what's it called now? Evolution. I'm predicting what this brand can be in 10 years. I always function in 10 years. So for me, it's that challenge of getting them to the point of saying that, see, stars come and go. Well, people will remember your legacy is what people would remember. This is how you've made them feel based on your impact in humanity. Gone are the days of, okay, he's famous.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, he has a million dollars. Oh, he's the richest. Right now, people are looking towards impact. And I think the Nigerian British space has tapped into it because, of course, there are a lot of factors involved in that. So yeah, getting them to see beyond the spotlight.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01] Interesting. So keeping to the theme of business and artists having a business mindset, if we look at the visibility, income and ownership, I know I read something where it said that Nigerian artists surpassed 7 billion Spotify streams in, I think it was 23, 2024. These are old figures, so it's probably considerably more than that now.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01] But they earned more than 25 billion naira in royalties. Those figures sound impressive. But what would you say they conceal about how streaming revenue is actually distributed across the industry?

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02] One of the things that I have noticed with the trends is we do not pay close attention to ownership, right? There are a lot of things involved with music. It's not a, like I said earlier, we're not lacking in creativity. Now, how well informed are these artists about the numbers? What is Spotify? What are the streaming numbers? What are your publishing rights, your masters? Who owns it?

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02] At what point do you now, your contracts, at what point do you start to get or can you buy back your masters? They don't understand the gap. Pretty much the gap is just infrastructure here. We don't know our rights, the contracts, financing, management, data distribution, and professional development. I think that's where we are lacking. And that's why I tie it back to the general infrastructure. Like we are not, we're just building brands.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02] The numbers there, the streaming numbers there, is definitely different from the streaming numbers outside of the country. And then you realize that you may spend more than what you earn in shooting for video direction, for production, for storytelling, for creating a universe in which the body of work is put out.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02] So I think once you are able to understand properly, understand contracts, understand publishing rights, understand sync rights, understand all of these rights, get your, get registered on everything. The Copyright Association of Nigeria, get registered into all of these businesses. Read. One of the biggest problems I find in today's time and age is people don't read anymore.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02] If you want to bury your treasure or put this in writing, no one is going to read it. So it's one of those things that we struggle with. Once we read and properly understand our rights, I guess it would be better. And maybe we will now even create our own streaming platforms. It's way past that time.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01] As you mentioned, people don't read as much as they used to and they don't look at the details. Sometimes we just look at a top level, big numbers. We frequently use streams, views and followers as evidence that a creator is succeeding. But what questions should we be asking to determine whether the visibility is actually translating into meaningful income?

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02] For me, I don't know what the contract is. I've run this for a year now and I can say I know how expensive it can get. I know how much goes into styling, how much goes into grooming, into feeding, into transportation, into all of these things. Into social media, into forcing the creatives to post at certain times. Because you know, that's not me. So I wouldn't say I have an idea generally.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02] But from my experience and from some of my colleagues that I have worked with in the past, it's most times they run at a loss. They run at a loss because people don't even make that much money from just the streaming and long. There are other avenues, merchandising. That's another thing I feel we should start putting, paying attention to merchandising. And we need creatives to bring it out to me. One thing I really loved about Nishri Sanya was during the COVID, that was in 2020.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02] He tapped into his community site and he has such a beautiful, like, he's quite funny. So these are other avenues in which people can also tap into various aspects. I take Beyonce and I look at the family, that the father was the manager, the mom was the designer, her sister was the part of our dancers. So it's like, less is more most times. I don't know how many people, everyone just wants that flashy lifestyle.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02] So by the time you run the cost of production to the actual profits, you realize that there's not so much.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01] There's not so much. Yeah, so you mentioned how expensive it can be to, I guess, produce or present an artist. Which leads me on to my next question in terms of how can a song become commercially successful while, I guess, the person who created it still remains financially vulnerable.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02] It's a lot of things. Because right now I tell my creative, I say before, if you really want to do music because it's from a place of passion, because you must love what you do. Because it will get to a point you make the money and because you have to meet with deadlines and contracts and all of these things, it takes the fun out of it. So you really have to be passionate about it. So first things first, I tell them, if you are not ready to be married for at least five years, just go.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02] Because everybody, everybody that I studied, from the Michael Jacksons to the James Browns to the Eater James to Harry DeFranclyn to the Two Faces to the Plantation Boys to the Peace Quay. They started, they did it over time. And that is how it's a process of, you know, you're learning on the job. No one knows most of these things. Everybody's learning on the job, especially for the new independent artists, because there's a rise of independent artists, indie artists coming out right now because they're tired.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02] They cannot afford the producers. They cannot afford this. AI is here. Everyone is trying to, like, learn from AI and whatnot. But the truth of the matter is to recoup what you put into getting your music out there because there's playlists and art now. There's so much you have to do with content. There's less viewership or attention on music videos nowadays because the phone is now on your TV. So you need to constantly be in their faces. Attention is getting shorter and shorter.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02] So just be prepared to go broke for at least five years. And when I say broke, it's not just broke. It's not broke. Broke. But, I mean, this kid was singing, you know what I mean? And at that point in time, he has come out saying he was broke. So these are the things because the labels, they put money into you because no one knows who is going to blow. So no one has to say over things.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02] The only thing you just have to do is, okay, pay this song, pay for the radio stations and all of these things. Interviews, media training, all of these things are, it's a lot. So basically no one knows who's just. Know that first of all, you have to want to do this passionately and then be prepared to be broke for five years.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_01] I guess tied to that in terms of broke for five years and delayed gratification and building the foundations, a huge part of that is ownership and intellectual property. So, you know, weak intellectual property protection and often piracy is a problem within the industry. But what do they mean economically for, say, an individual creator trying to build a sustainable career and something that has longevity?

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01] As you mentioned, being broke for five years and getting this delayed gratification.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02] It's a big one. It really is a big one. So I've seen and I've heard of traces who sing a song and then they see it in a film and they were not even contracted. Likewise, another friend of mine had a film and she got a call and they were playing it in a plane and she wasn't even aware of all of these things. So one thing is, it's very, very volatile. The industry is very volatile.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02] Even as much as you have to pay attention to intellectual property, there are lots of people that may not even respect it like that because they don't respect your rights. But first thing to us is that you have to, from the get-go, decide on ownership. One thing I, one of the things I love that Thames did was she started and registered her company. So everything is done in her, in her company.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02] So she addressed herself, she built herself as a company, not an artist, not a brand, but a company. And that's one way to look at it. So there's ownership on her path. And one thing with songs as well is like, when the song, when nobody knows the song, everybody is your friend. And when the song becomes successful, that's when everybody remembers the conversations differently. So agreements are not just evidences that you disforced each other.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02] Good agreements preserve your relationship because everybody knows where they stand. So when it comes to your intellectual property, especially in the art of the creative field, understand what you're assigning. Have an entertainment lawyer look over it. Understand your intellectual property. Understand your speech sheets. Read, know the business part of it. Know the business part of it because it's a jungle out there. And everyone wants to win.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01] I agree. So with that in mind, how much of, say, Nigeria's intellectual property problem would you say is caused by the weak enforcement? And how much would you say begins with, as you mentioned, poor contracts, poor documentation, informal working relationships?

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02] Hmm. Step by step by step by step. So we see that in the day. That's a contract to yourself. So it's an agreement in itself. So it's like, we need to start reading it. Right now, before I do anything down to applications, I have to take screenshots of each and I say break it down like you're talking to a nine-year-old. So it's the detail in taking our time to read. Do not do anything under pressure. I think we're always looking for the hype.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, I've gotten, oh, I have this out and now and whatnot. And then you overlook a lot of things. So one man's bad business and another man's good business. So we should take out our time to really, really follow through the process. And I think the government should start looking heavily into protecting the rights of the creatives. And I'm not just talking about the arts alone. Like every single individual, because the creative industry is most likely the next four years of money.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_02] And before the news gets exploited and they will tell you it's from a lot of regard that created Afrobeat, we have to start safeguarding our intellectual property.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01] So we know that better contracts and stronger intellectual property protection can help creators retain value. But in order to, I guess, scale and grow, we also need capital. I read that Nigeria's music industry is projected to exceed $1 billion in 2026. Yes. So why does an industry grown at that pace still struggle to attract bank credit or patient investment?

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02] Most banks don't want to, especially with money or like, and it's famous. Because it's quite volatile. It's easy to lose the money because no one has a say on what a good song or a good artist is going to do. To be how he or she is going to be accepted. And what I've listened to a lot of music execs, because they say it takes at least seven years for them. Seven years to recoup the money that was spent on an artist like from the year one. And this is not just an album.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02] This is like singles. I've seen with a record label say, the big record label say, they use at least $400 million to promote one single. So banks and other corporate bodies, they not want to invest that. That it's like seven years to get what it's. And you have to look at the reputation over time. No one is going to invest based on a startup. And this is where I feel like the government can play a key role in.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_02] I was watching an interview and one of the men I look up to, Alex O'Keeke, was talking about the government, like, it's beyond the grants. You will have, let's start investing more in creative hubs. Like what we're doing with loan rooms. Like it's an animal show. So I studied Rockefeller and I noticed that what he just did was to do by the process. He didn't say I'm going to start digging for oil. No, he's like, I'm going to distribute it. I'm going to refine it. So there are a lot of things in which we can take.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02] You don't have to do everything. So if we have more creative hubs across, then the record labels, the auditioning, the ones that want movies, the video, the vixens, the stylists, the fashion designers, the artists, everyone, the gaffers, the production guys, video, visual, sound engineering. If we have hubs dedicated to this across not just the island,

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02] but across the mainland down to Ikorudu, we teach our carpenters to do better, better ways of crafting, of creating aircraft. These guys have beautiful ideas that the confidence to bring it out or even think that it is possible. It is where it is likely. And most times you just have to remind them to find joy and to do it.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01] Fantastic. Keeping on the theme of financing the music industry, would you say that banks and investors misunderstand the economics of the creative industry? Or are many of these creative businesses not structured in a way that makes them investable?

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02] It's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both. And that's one thing, that's one of the reasons why I thought of Bloom Roms, because I've been in the creative space and I've been in the corporate space. And while the creative space, we're very locked in on our art and our creativity and what we see and how we dream it and feel like there's this conviction that this is it. But most times it may not even be it. And most critics don't even understand the idea of no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02] trying and trying and trying and picking up yourself and going again. And one bad word, one bad insult on Instagram will not make you crumble. And that's one thing that the corporate bodies try to do because it's the structure. You need the structure and you need to understand hierarchy. You need to understand that there's a process. You need to understand that not everything comes at your bed and call. You need to understand work ethics. You need to understand your word is your bond. You need to understand branding. You need to understand brand language.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02] You need to understand a lot of these things. And that is where you always feel like, I've met a couple of corporate people and when I talk about critics, they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Those ones waste money, waste money. So it's trying to correct that impression that the assets can also be intellectual property audiences. It could be their catalogs. It could be the communities. It could be the cultural influence. Now we have, we have a lot of influence in influencer marketing right now. It doesn't want to, as it is,

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_02] dwindling down. I feel like the nano-influencers can be a thing. Your WhatsApp, I mean, WhatsApp created a community for a reason. So everybody should start saying he's or herself as a community leader. You need to stand for something. Eventually, everyone will come around. But for now, the creative needs to understand the corporate structure and the corporate structure needs to understand that the creative sometimes can already their students because they're passionate about their art.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01] As you mentioned before, much of Nigeria's creative industry is concentrated around a small number of established districts, even though talent exists across the country. So what does Loom Rooms in Egbeda allow you to see about Nigerian creative talent that might be overlooked from the industry's more established centers? Honestly,

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02] it's nothing like I've experienced before. I have seen creatives, I've seen the magic they create. It's really sad because you see a lot of creatives and you talk about EDM and you talk about techno music, you talk about disco, you talk about different genres they may not have heard of and these guys are well in their 20s, 25, 26 and it just says a lot and you give them something to try and they're like, no, no. But then we go out to For Rafe, like an element house

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_02] and they come back inspired and it's magic. I cannot explain it. It's magic. So I'm like, this cannot be overlooked. These guys are willing to learn and that's one thing I'm really grateful for the creators in Loom Rooms. There's this, I don't know, is this a brilliance? There's a brilliance I cannot explain. You have the newscasters talk, give a speech before the song comes up about Lagos. It's just really beautiful to see that collaboration within all of them and it's just,

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02] it's a happy time. Most times we're always dancing and just happy and whatnot. So yeah, I feel like we should pay attention to the industry because I feel like Lee Mosho is very overlooked. It's very overlooked. I am working with a couple of hospitality owners here to create like the hub, build the hub and look beyond just the music, look into art, look into the food industry, F&B industry. So the thing

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02] that the footballing, we have the football academy here, it's on the ground but there are raw talents, there are raw talents, over 2 million people, there are raw talents. Too many talents that they just, they want to be heard.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01] You just touched in terms of the raw talents or would you say there's an abundance of talents or is there a scarcity due to the lack of access to, I guess, studios, mentors or professional networks? There is an abundance

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02] of talents. Like right now, down on our TikTok page and Instagram, I'm just seeing a lot by the way. I'm in that Lee Mosho, I'm in that Lee Mosho. There's an abundance of talents and man, like it's other, different sounds, different genres, one of them, those rock, Afro rock

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02] and it's, there are things that are untapped, very untapped. I just feel like we should really look into this,

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01] this hub. Fantastic. I guess with that in mind, you've built a hub, you've built a creator space, a pathway, a community. So how are you actually tearing this creative community into a self-sustaining business or institution rather than just remaining a space?

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, at the moment, because at the moment it's beyond that. So for the first year I've built a curriculum so we, they come in, they do the boot camp, we have mentors like Trudy to Don Wore was on it. We came to talk to them and Trudy is the strategic manager for Hilda Bassey. A couple of brands people like that have come to talk to them and funny thing, most of them stayed in Embedda and moved from Embedda.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02] So from having them work together to listen to these voices, they put an album together. We had something in Unilag it was called Conform. Conform was the conversation and performance where we had panel sessions and performances and this was done by the creatives and at first they thought they could not do it but they did it and they came back like, no, we see what you've been trying to tell us

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02] that we can do it. So from there they've had a couple of them have had people reach out to them to handle their brands and whatnot to get their money. From there we also work in Eco FM so Eco FM we have a show called Eco Radio Party every Saturday so we have our DJs come to play the artists they have the premiere there as well the girls that we're training in

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02] broadcasting and presenting they come on air we put them on platforms we have them do their daily results from there there's also I'm working with a concert called The Future Concert this is where we showcase the voices of the the new sound so to speak so it's at Landmark Lagos every first Thursday of the month so from here once we train you train yourself we invite A&Rs to come listen to you once you are able

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02] to perform life properly understand your keys you can be free on sailing because that's who that's what you want to do then we push we push we push then we talk to a couple of our friends in the industry and say oh there's this new guy popping would you come taking my house should I send them to you I know that a talent manager that has worked with the band was listening I was concerned one of the girls and listening to all so these are things that has happened in the years so far and I'm just

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_02] looking forward to it because it's now beyond this now we're now creating businesses like I said some of the creatives now have their companies like the video that is training the young ones like the ones and 17 who is an active writer and a photographer as well so these are the things that we're always seeing so everyone now goes out once you're good enough bring in the new ones

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02] train them open companies bring in the new ones but the mentality is links unites and multiply creativity is character over talent fantastic

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01] so during this conversation obviously we've spoke about what's happening within the space the ecosystem what Loom Rooms is currently doing and the success that you've had so far so if we look to the future I read somewhere that by 2045 Loom Rooms wants to become an institution where artists become mentors collectors become organisations and African creativity becomes a global export that's a great ambition but what would you say

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01] would probably have to change in Nigeria in terms of the infrastructure to enable you to achieve this ambition

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02] I would say everybody everybody has to come to work not just the trains themselves not just the companies that have the structure the governments as well so we have to build infrastructure underneath that disability we already have the disability our music is visible fashion is visible our language is visible I have my Dutch friends learn teaching our dances are visible

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_02] I see Asians dance our dances on TikTok so we need to now visibility we need to understand visibility is not our ownership so let's put heavy focus on the infrastructure underneath that disability the intellectual property that we've said financing into all of these projects management proper management the distribution channels let's start making more hubs that distribute this talent in a way that they are properly their contracts are properly

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02] taken care of in a way that yes the company recruits and the recruits their recruits rather the money and they get their return on investment and the talents are well taken care of let's look into educating educating the younger ones let's study reading culture and people let's look more into technology let's understand what is happening let's be curious about cultures the cultures of other people other countries as well

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_02] let's try to do more collaborations with other creators from other African countries let's look into data let's try to understand how our emotions are tilted towards the songs we listen to the music the general ambience and feeling of people and our institutions let's start looking into institutions and taking our arts seriously I say one thing I remember going to the Rite Museum in Amsterdam and they were showing all

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_02] the artifacts from the slave trade period and they were showing them to the younger ones and I'm talking about five four years old and what was being instilled in their mind was we won and I don't have I can't go to there's no structure there's no place to see oh this was where this happened before everything is being taken down urbanization is taking over but we need to have a

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02] remembrance we need to have a remembrance of our culture we need to understand our stories we need to be able to pass it down because you cannot you can never go to the future if you don't understand your past there's no future to go to we need to know our stories we need to embrace our stories we need to embrace our culture we need to embrace our skin so these are the things that art is our art has to be intentional about and look at how was his age of Hitler not to glamorize what was

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02] done but he was able to use the media to send a message you know it's Germany for the Germans and how are we now coming to use that art to say this is art by Africans for Africans and for the world well let's take care of our own first let's know our own let's learn let's relearn so that's pretty much everybody all hands on deck towards a common goal

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01] quote of the week I know throughout your journey you've worked to create an environment in which African artists can grow build sustainable careers and create work that lasts as people we often have quotes philosophies African proverbs that help us through difficult moments good moments do you have one that has stayed with you throughout that journey

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02] yes yes I have a couple of them I look at three African readers I look at Fela I look at Kwan and Krumah and I look at Nelson Mandela and the most powerful one is for me is where everything still points to Africa Unites but Nelson says Africa will not wait until Nigeria gets its ass together to Africa Unites that's all

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01] fantastic that's a fitting way to close today's conversation it's been a great conversation one that I've enjoyed as someone who interestingly I started my business life in the music industry not many people know that but yes it's very close to my heart so yeah Shola it's a great way to have this conversation and it's brought back memories of my own as well and from the conversation it's clear that Nigeria has already demonstrated

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01] its ability to produce globally successful creative talent I guess the challenge now is building the contracts the finance the intellectual property protection and also the institutions needed to ensure creators retain more of the value that they create and generate so yeah it's been a great conversation and I've enjoyed it all the best with Loom Rooms rooms it sounds like you're doing fantastic work on the ground thank you likewise

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01] I can't wait

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_02] to talk again it's a place of thank you so much

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01] thank you to everyone who has listened and stayed tuned to the podcast if you've enjoyed this episode please subscribe share or tell a friend about it you can also rate review us in apple podcast or wherever you download your podcast thank you and see you next week for the unlocking africa podcast